Why Having a Personal Brand is SO Important to Your Success with Michelle Knight

Joe:Real quick before we get started, I want to tell you about theBuild Something Weeklynewsletter. It is weekly, it is free, and you will get tips, tricks, and tools delivered directly to your mailbox. I will recap the current week’s episode and all of the takeaways, I’ll give you a top story, content I wrote, and then some recommendations that I’ve been using that I think you should check out. So it is free, it is a weekly, it’s over at streamlined.fm/subscribe. Go ahead and sign up over atstreamlined.fm/subscribe.

Intro:Hey, everybody, and welcome to Episode 210 of How I Built It, the podcast that asks, How did you build that? Today’s sponsors areMindsize,Restrict Content Pro, andTextExpander, who you will be hearing about later on in the show. Now, if you are aCreator Crewmember, if you’re subscribed to Build Something More but you happen to be picking up the normal feed, definitely get the Build Something More feed because we, Michelle and I, had a fantastic pre-show conversation, which is a show first. I’m sending out the pre-show because it was really good. Speaking of, my guest is Michelle Knight. She is the personal branding and marketing strategist over atBrandmerry. Michelle, how are you today?

Michelle Knight:Oh, great. Thanks for having me. Loved our little pre-show chat.

Joe: Likewise. Likewise. Thanks for joining me on the show here. Thanks for joining us. It was a lot of fun and nerd culture and WandaVision. First of all, if you’re not watching WandaVision, you should watch WandaVision. I guess by the time this comes out, we will actually be behind. So, if you haven’t seen it, spoiler alert. But if you’re all caught up, you know, don’t tell past us what happened. That’s what we’re talking about today.

We’re talking today about how to market your business without relying on social media, which I’m really excited about. I was looking at your website, again, personal branding consultant. I think this is a really good topic to talk about because I feel like I was telling my students about this like 10 years ago. I was teaching at the college level, college freshmen a computer literacy course, and I’m like, “You need to have a personal brand.” And they’re like, “Who cares?” But now fast forward to 2021, I feel like that’s even more important. So before we dive into the kind of social media stuff, I suspect having a strong personal brand will help with that. Why don’t you tell us a little bit more about what you do there?

Michelle Knight:Yeah, absolutely. I founded my companyBrandmerryright after my son was born in 2016 out of just the need to be home, to just not want to commute to work anymore. I had a background in PR, background in communications and I dove headfirst into creating my online business with really kind of wearing this coach consultant hat. I struggled a lot. I had no idea what I was doing. I felt like I was mimicking everybody else. I spent months creating a website that then didn’t look like or sound like me, which is highly relatable to a lot of people.

About nine months into it, when I was planning on leaving my nine to five, I was like, “Something needs to shift.” So I started to do more and more research outside as well as some internal research to figure out who I was and what I really wanted to build a brand around. And everything really started to shift for me at that point in time. I started to show up in a different way, I started to really express myself, I did more live videos and I started to share more stories. And instantly, I saw connections start to happen.

The same people who had been in my community for months were buying from me suddenly. And I didn’t change the offer. All I did was change how I was showing up and creating a brand that was a representation of that. So that’s what I really fell in love with personal branding and storytelling, and I spent, the next three or four years really focusing on that aspect, teaching entrepreneurs specifically how to figure out, number one, who they are and how they want to show up online and then creating a brand and a product suite that’s in alignment with that mission. And then I’ve moved in the last couple of years to focus on, now, how do we market that? Because you realize really quickly that you can have an amazing personal brand, you can have an amazing product, but if you don’t know how to effectively market it, then nobody else is going to know about it.

Joe:I love that. And it’s so funny that you mentioned that because I feel like between the pre-show and this you must have been listening into the solo episode I recorded right before this, which wasEpisode 205, where I talked about my failed Patreon experiment. It’s the same thing. I started this podcast in 2016. I went self-employed in 2017 after my daughter was born, and I thought, “I need to launch memberships. I need to launch a membership for my podcast.” And I just copied everyone else’s benefits, everyone else’s levels. And I’m like, “How come no one’s buying?” And then I came to realize I’m just promising a bunch of stuff that I don’t even know if I can deliver or not. So I took that down, and I’ve changed directions. Well, now people are actually buying my membership because it reflects me and what I can offer. So I think that’s fantastic.

Michelle Knight:Well, I tell people all the time that people don’t buy the product or the service, there’s a million products and services that are exactly the same across the board. If people really just focused on that, then they would just buy the first thing that they see. But it’s about that connection, it’s about that relationship. And that’s why personal branding is so important.

Joe:Yeah, absolutely. As people listen to this, I know that’s something I struggled with early on when I was freelancing and making websites for people was, how do I write my copy? Do I write “I”? Do I write “we”? Who is this? Is it the royal we? So maybe we can start there? How you present yourself, as you said, is so integral to connecting with customers, with selling more products and services? I or we?

Michelle Knight:I think it depends. I think when you’re starting a business and you’re the sole CEO and face of that business, I always recommend going with “I”. Primarily because, who is the “we”? You and your imaginary team, probably not in the beginning. You’re the decision-maker at that point in time. The “I” allows for more of that personal connection. If you’re working with a company, I think you go back and forth. If we’re speaking on behalf of the company, I have a background in nonprofit management, if you’re speaking on behalf of the nonprofit and the work that they do, it’s a “we”. But if your CEO is stepping out and saying something, sharing their story, sharing what they’re doing, it’s an “I”.

And then I guess as your business evolves, and I see this a lot, especially as someone who has added more team members and is moving more into a company role, I go back and forth between the two. If it’s me, I’m showing up, I’m sharing a story, I’m focusing on connecting, I’m the one telling the story. But if I’m talking about the team as a whole and we made this decision, then I can share that. So right out of the gate, I say default to “I”. As you grow, incorporate the “we.”

Joe:I think that’s great. And that’s generally the advice that I’ve recommended as well just because, you know, there are benefits to working one on one with a freelancer. And maybe they’re not available 24/7 but they are there to fully understand your business to be invested in a way that some giant agency can’t be.

Michelle Knight:Totally.

Joe:Awesome. So when it comes to building your personal brand, we’re not just talking about website copy and “I” or “we.” What are we talking about? If I wanted to start investing in more of a personal brand for me, where would I start? Would I look inwardly? Would I do some research into things I should consider? What does the process look like?

Michelle Knight:It’s kind of all of that. I like to say that branding as a whole, and I think it’s important to say, is an experience. I think very old school and what I thought even just five years ago was like, “Let me get my website up. Let me choose my colors and my fonts. If I do that everything will be fine.” And we’ve really learned. And now that information is so readily available to us, that it’s not about those things. It really is about the experience that we’re creating. And those things can help with that process, but at the end of the day, it’s that voice, it’s that mission, it’s how we’re carrying through everything that we’re doing, from website design to coffee to our products and our offers.

The method that I teach is first to look inward because as a recovering perfectionist, I have a tendency to go outward, and say, “Oh, what are you doing? That seems to be working. Let me just copy that.” And that’s what happened in the beginning of my business. So I recommend going inward first. The first practice that I love to guide people through is just what’s your story because one of the first pieces of copy that everyone should really write is their brand story. And it’s one of the most fun things that you can create in the beginning.

So going inward and saying, “What is my story? What has led me to where I am today? What’s the purpose behind me wanting to put my work out in the world?” As I mentioned before, I’m from a nonprofit background. So I always recommend my clients establish a mission for their brand. What are your values? These are the things that you want to identify right out of the gate so that you can make sure that you’re always showing up in those pieces—your brand is always showing up.

Then the second piece of this is, all right, now, who do you want to attract? A lot of people forget this step of the personal brand, and then we start showing up sharing content and stories and it’s not resonating with people because it’s just about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I, when what we share needs to resonate with the people that we want to attract. So, you’re not showing up and just like writing your biography online. You’re building a business.

So the stories that you share, the content that you share, even the colors that you choose needs to come down to, you know, how do I want my audience to feel? What are they seeking? What are they looking for? What’s happened in their life? That portion of it is where we get more into research, you know, the dreaded ideal client research that everyone hates. But I swear you have to do it. I personally love it. But that’s where that piece comes in.

So then you combine those two things together, and you say, “All right, now let me decide what offer can I create based on my expertise that my audience absolutely needs? Because I know them so well at this point. What types of messages can I create that showcase my expertise and my strengths that resonate with my ideal customer. And so everything then kind of pulls on those two pieces as you build your business.

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And now let’s get back to it.

Joe:This is the exact thing that I said, again, in that episode I just recorded. “I made the Patreon copy about me and I started my own business and I want to make content full time. And you should give me money so I can make content full time.” And I just read it back recently and I’m like, “What was I even thinking?” Who cares? Who cares that I want to make content? People want good content, and they will support good content, but they’re not just going to give me money to create it because I want to create, I should say.

Michelle Knight:Exactly. Unless you’re a celebrity, and then maybe they’ll be so obsessed with you and your life that they’re like, “Yeah, sign me up to watch behind the scenes.” But the majority of us are not there. And I think too, just circling back to what you said, everyone wants to know what’s in it for me? What’s the benefit? So even if you are at a stage where maybe you’re sharing behind-the-scenes stuff, why should someone pay you to see that? What’s the benefit to them? So no matter what you’re doing with your copy with your content, even with storytelling, where you might be saying, “My son was one month postpartum when I started my business,” you still gotta turn it back around to your audience and provide value to them so it’s not like a talking head situation.

Joe:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that’s fantastic. And then looking inwardly, I think that’s really important. A book that has just resonated with me ever since the day I read it was “Start With Why” by Simon Sinek. And it’s what you said there. A lot of the same things. It’s figure out why you’re doing something. Establish your mission. And then everything should focus around that.

Now, a lot of the listeners here are small business owners. A lot are in the WordPress space, but a lot aren’t. I guess that was a weird thing to say. That’s redundant. A lot of people are definitely small business owners who maybe don’t have the time or resources to fully invest in something like this. Are there one or two things that they should really focus on first and then maybe build out over time?

Michelle Knight:Yeah. What I always recommend is get super clear on those two pieces that we just talked about. You understand, like I said, your mission, craft, understand what has led you to where you are. Because doing that story work allows you to pull on the strengths and the experiences that you’ve had, which then you can share through your copy and your content.

And then you’ve got to do the ideal client research. Don’t tell me you don’t have time for it, because you’re going to suffer. People come to me and they’re like, “I don’t know what content to share.” And I’m like, “Do your ideal client research.” “I don’t know how to write a better copy.” Do your ideal client research. We always want to think there’s some mystery formula that we just have to follow. But it really is just like do the work, do the dirty work and you’re going to be set up for success in your business. I call it the foundation. One of my first coaches was like, “You shouldn’t use that word. It’s not sexy.” And I was like, “I don’t care.” It’s legit what I’m teaching. You build a foundation like you would a building so that you continue to add to it. And it just topples on top of itself. So those two pieces are key.

I tell entrepreneurs all the time you don’t need a perfect website. You don’t need… Designers don’t come at me. But you don’t need to hire a designer in your first year of business. There are so many tools out there. Go into Canva, put some colors in there, and make a logo. You don’t even need a frickin logo, which branding people always come at me for that too. It really comes down to your copy and your messaging. If you can write clearly to your ideal customer, you can have a white background on a sales page with black copy and a photo and a button and you will still make sales.

Joe:Yep, absolutely. What you said there really reminds me of like, get super clear on your mission. If you don’t do the ideal client research, you’re wasting your time. It reminds me of just last night, I woke up in the middle of the night. My son was hungry, he was crying. I didn’t want him to wake up my daughter. So I ran downstairs and I pulled a bottle out of the fridge. Now I knew I should have warmed it up. Because he doesn’t like cold formula. But I was like it’ll be fine. And I tried feeding him for like 10 minutes and he kept rejecting it and then I had to go back downstairs. And then he drank it all. But I wasted probably 20 minutes there. And I knew. So don’t serve your business cold formula I guess is what I’m trying to say.

Michelle Knight:I love, love, love that analogy. And you wasted 20 minutes, but entrepreneurs waste years.

Joe:Me too. I’ve done it.

Michelle Knight:I start working with entrepreneurs and they’re like, “I have a website. I post every day on social media. I’m doing the things.” And when we nearly get down to it, there are gaps in their foundational pieces. That small tweaks fix and then suddenly it’s like, “Oh, sweet. Now I just need to show up and keep running with this and scale my business.”

Joe:Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned social media. Part of the reason that I had you on the show, which by the way, Brittany Lin, and I know I’ve mentioned her on the show before, she’s helped me out. She’s helped me figure out my kind of ideal client stuff and the niches I want to be in, connected us. And the thing that caught me the most was how to market your business without relying on social media. I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say, “I learned a long time ago that if you build it, they will come. That field of dreams marketing does not work. As a developer, that was a very hard lesson for me to learn. But then I just moved on to another fallacy, which is if I tweet it, they will come. I thought if I launched a course, if I tweet that I launched the course, people will see it’s great and they will buy it. But that’s not really how it works.

Michelle Knight:No, unfortunately. I mean, fortunately for me because I teach the strategies, but unfortunately for us as entrepreneurs. Like I said, I was right there too. I spent eight months with my husband trying to figure out this whole website thing. And then I launched it, like full champagne toast video on Instagram, like full thing, nobody came. My mom maybe. And that website even sat there for months and months and months and wasn’t getting consistent traffic.

So, I think like you were saying, one of the first things is that we build a website, and then we’re like, “All the people will find my website.” But it doesn’t work like that. So then we go to social media, which is really the first thing that we’re taught when we want to start a business. “Just post on Facebook, post on Instagram, post on Twitter, and people will find you.” But the reality is that people are using those platforms to find things. They are using those platforms for connection.

So a lot of entrepreneurs use social media solely as the top level for getting in front of their cold audience and attracting that. The brand awareness stage basically. When really social media at emphasis should be more on that connection stage, moving your audience through the buying process, the personal branding aspect, then watching you on Insta stories. Are you making a funny reel? Are those different things? That’s where it should be. But so many entrepreneurs were focused on it to find new people, and then build their email platform. And then they grow by like five people every two weeks, and they get frustrated, when there’s actually a better way as I have come to find out.

Joe:Yes. We’re going to talk about that. Perhaps in Build Something More we can talk about maybe effective social media uses, right? Because like you mentioned reels, and I’m like, “I don’t know how to use reels.” Somebody just invited me to Clubhouse today and I don’t know what I’m doing there. In Build Something More, we’ll talk about specific social media platforms, what to do, what not to do. But you have a better way besides just tweeting or writing on Facebook, “Hey, my website. Come check out my website.” My friends and family don’t care that I sell podcast courses. They don’t really know I have a podcast.

Michelle Knight:It’s not that I hate social media. And I tell people this, I actually love it. I love hanging out on there and having fun. But it should not be what we rely on to build our email list, to attract consistent leads, and convert to sales. You think of a triangle, an upside-down triangle, we’ve all seen it like a pyramid, you’ve got that cold traffic coming in the top. That has to be consistent. Otherwise, the bottoms just going to dry up. You’re not going to have anybody moving into a paying customer. So these more evergreen strategies that I love to teach are the strategies that allow those consistent leads to come in without requiring you to consistently create new content every single day.

Joe:I was going to say you’re speaking my language because my wife, and listeners now, my wife’s a nurse, she works three 12 hour shifts a week, which means on those days I’m watching my kids. So I’m not working. I don’t have time to create that kind of new content. Evergreen strategies sound like exactly what I need.

Michelle Knight:This came about for me on accident really, because I had done the things, as we’ve talked about, I built the business and I did hit six figures in my business in a year through a lot of exhaustive hustle. I was raising a baby, I was working nine to five for the first nine months. So I was optimizing my strategies, I had some systems in place, but I was like, “There’s no way I can grow past this, and maintain this same idea.” So that’s when I really started to look at things like Pinterest, search engine optimization, the power of Google and blogging, YouTube video, or more of the search engine platforms where people are seeking out support in these areas, getting them, hooking them and then nurturing and building my community through fun content.

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Joe:Maybe let’s pick one. Maybe let’s do YouTube, right?

Michelle Knight:Okay.

Joe:You said that you found YouTube as… that’s the number two search engine in the world. Google is number one, and then Google owns YouTube is number two. People go there to learn things. So if I’m trying to develop an effective strategy for building an audience through these evergreen strategies, is YouTube a good channel for that?

Michelle Knight:It is. I always tell people to really think about how they like to create content. So some people love video. I’m one of those people. And I love video to be my core piece of content. So one of the things that I teach is repurposing. And people call me the repurposing Queen because I can take one piece of content and I can turn it into like 32 pieces of content.

Joe:Awesome.

Michelle Knight:So some people like video, some people write and so they prefer blogging. Truly the strategies are the same across the board. So that’s what’s cool. I mean, the way you upload your title, and maybe your keywords is different placement but the process that you go through is the same. And the reason that these all work, again, is because there’s search engines. Same with Pinterest, which a lot of people don’t think about. But Pinterest is where you go, you type in the search bar, it’s all keyword optimized and so people will find your content. I don’t know about you, but I don’t search for anything on Facebook. No.

So when you’re thinking about these different platforms, and I’m happy to share some of the steps on that, but what I really want to drive home to is that you’re hitting people at every single stage of the buying process. So rather than just attracting somebody who’s maybe looking for content, we’re also attracting and getting in front of people who are ready to buy. So there’s the stages of the buying process. Someone understands they’ve got a problem, and so they’re looking for options to solve their problem. Then they move into the research stage, which is where people are googling and looking on YouTube and stuff like that, then they’re aware of a solution. So now they’re trying to explore, like, what’s the best solution for them. They’ve figured it out and now they’re shopping around to figure out which one they’re going to buy. And then they become a buyer.

There are people who are at stage five, who are like, “I have my money, I want to give it to someone.” I’m telling you, they’re going to Google, they’re typing in what they want, and then they’re hitting up the first 30 people. And I know that because that’s where most of my clients come from is just searching in branding coach, and landing on my website, strong personal brand, investing the money. That’s what’s so cool about the whole concept of evergreen SEO optimized content is you’re able to get people in every single stage, whether they’re just looking for help with three tips to write a better story, they might land on a blog post, or they’re just ready to pull out their credit card.

Joe:I think that’s fantastic. And it’s so funny that you mentioned Pinterest because I hadChelsea Clarkeon the show a few episodes ago and that was her trade secret.

Michelle Knight:Yes, mine too.

Joe:She was like, “Not enough people are using Pinterest.” So I think that’s so funny. I told Chelsea I would look into it now. I definitely will look into it. That’s incredible. This is really interesting that you say that. Because again, the conventional wisdom says like, “You need to get people at the top of the funnel and you introduce yourself. And then you get them on your mailing list and then you market to them for like 14 years and then maybe they’re right on. But people who are ready to spend money, those are probably the best people to directly market to in the short term. I don’t want to say that the nurturing is bad, obviously, because it’s great. But if people are willing to spend their money, they might as well spend it with you.

Michelle Knight:Totally. The nurturing part is so fun. I’ve had things where I’m like, “Oh, you’re cool. Let me just see what you’re about and I’ll buy down the road.” But I think as a business owner, it’s important to understand that your ideal customer could be at these different stages. And when you create this evergreen type of content, you’re able to show up and pull them in no matter what stage they’re at, rather than social media, which is totally different. Not to mention actually getting it in front of people who are searching for it is near impossible. So that’s why these strategies are so helpful in sustainably growing your business, getting those consistent leads, and making that consistent sale.

Joe:I think that’s super important. Again, if we’re talking about YouTube, just, for example, people are finding that evergreen content. I know because I see the comments come in on my YouTube videos, the most popular ones, and it’s like, “How to do separate audio tracks with Zoom.” Or my friends are like, “Dude, I searched on YouTube and you were the first one to come up. Great video.” How do I… how does one… I don’t want to make this seem like it’s about me. I was always that guy in class who raised his hand and asked a question because I knew I had that question but I assumed like half of the class also had that question.

Michelle Knight:Totally.

Joe:How do I get them from YouTube to mailing list? Or is from YouTube to mailing list even the right move? You say all these people are at different stages. What’s my call to action post-YouTube video?

Michelle Knight:I always recommend email list. Because I always say an email is the first investment that someone will make in your business. And when we start thinking about email addresses as currency, everything changes. It pains me when people are like, “Come follow me on Instagram.” Or like, “Just like this video,” and that’s it. It’s like, no, if someone’s watched the end of your video for YouTube specifically and they’re engaged, they’re ready for the next step. So give them that opportunity.

So across the board, no matter what you do, I always recommend some sort of lead magnet, some way to get somebody on your email list. And in service base, that’s typically something free. A free guide, a free video free something. But it can also be product-based. A coupon. Take a quiz. There’s all kinds of different things that you can do. But that’s really important because people are typically like, “This is great. I want more of this.” And we want to get them on our email list. Because although your email list is maybe on a platform that you don’t control, the reality is you do have more control over that information than Facebook or Instagram. If Instagram went down, and that was all that you were using to get in touch with your community, you would be screwed. But if you have an email list on the back end, you can download that spreadsheet, move to a different platform email, get really creative with it. So across the board, I recommend that.

And because these pieces of content are evergreen, I very rarely recommend pitching a product or a service unless it too is evergreen. So if you have a course that you sell all the time or a membership site that people can join or even something that opens multiple times a year, and you’re just saying hey, “I offer this inside of my program, go here to learn more.” And then if they land their doors are open great. If not, they can join a waitlist. But yeah, across the board, always, always email list. I’m a firm believer in that one.

Joe:Awesome. I’m really glad to hear that because that’s also what I’ve been preaching. I’m like, I’m a guy I know some things, but it’s always good to hear from the experts. But also I haven’t been good about that. I always end my YouTube videos with “like” and “smash that like button.” I’ve never said that for real.

Michelle Knight:Thank you.

Joe:“Like and subscribe,” and then my tagline. I’ll have like a card right so people can go, or the icon on the end screen. I’ve put a lot of time into my end screens, but saying it verbally in the video is super important, right? If you like what I’m talking about, get the free guide for whatever, 5 Zoom tips that’ll make you look even better. I just thought of that lead magnet now…

Michelle Knight:I like it.

Joe:By the time this comes out…

Michelle Knight:It might be really valuable for a lot of people today.

Joe:Yeah. I think that’s really important. And I really needed to hear that because at first, I wasn’t sure. But you’re right about owning your platform. I export my subscriber list like once every six weeks, which makes me sound like a crazy person. I use ConvertKit and I assume they’re not going anywhere because they’re really great. But if they disappear one day, I’m losing a bunch of email addresses.

Michelle Knight:I use ConvertKit too. We do the same thing. We’re really adamant about our email list over here. I say we now because my team member actually does it. I don’t have to do it anymore. But we not only download but clean our list quite frequently. We get a lot of subscribers every day and I invest in advertising and some of those different avenues as well. I want to make sure that the people who are there actually want to be there. So we frequently like to clean our list to help with that as well. So there’s a little bonus tip for those of you.

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Joe:We are moving into the tips for listeners segment of the show. You’ve given us so much. But let’s say that somebody have taken your first two pieces of advice. Look inward, what’s your story, figure out your ideal client. What’s the next step? What should they do from there?

Michelle Knight:I think from there, it really becomes creating content, we want to wait to create content until… I feel like I’m beating a dead horse, right? …we have the website up or the thing. But if you want to sell you need to have people to sell to. One of the best things that you can do once you’ve got a little solid ground with “Who am I? Who do I want to attract? What’s my mission? What am I offering?” then start putting content out there so that you can start building your audience.

The first thing that I recommend is focus on quality content. Focus on things people are searching for. I’m holding my eyes right now—people can’t see me—because I’m trying to meditate. People always say, “What do I talk about? What do I create content about?” I’m like, “Go Google. See what people are searching for.” If you really want to show up, go into your niche and figure out what people need help with. There are so many free tools out there.

I’m going to tell you some of them now.AnswerThePublicis an awesome free tool. All of these give you a limited amount of searches every day, but still just go do it every day for like five days, and you’ll be solid for 90 days.AnswerThePublicwill tell you the top questions being asked on Google. And you can type in your industry, you can type in your ideal customer, you can type in pain points, and they will tell you exactly what people are asking for. You can use a tool called Keywords Everywhere, which is a small investment but amazing when you’re wanting to do SEO. It’ll tell you how many monthly searches keywords get.

You know you might be like, “This is great,” and it gets zero searches a month. It’s really going to help you. You can change even a little bit of the language, you can get thousand searches a month, and that’s amazing. You can even use YouTube specifically because they will autofill for you. So go to the search bar and type in something relevant to what you’re offering and let it tell you what the top searches are. So doing research and having that strong strategy in place to create content that people are actually searching for is important. And then you put your spin on it.

I did a podcast episode the other day on morning routines. It was like pulling teeth from my team to get me to do this because I was like, “I’m not doing fluff content.” And they’re like, “Everyone keeps asking for this. Everyone wants this.” So I put my own spin on it. And it’s been a huge download. And I’ve gotten tons of messages that are like, “Oh my gosh, I love this.” You get to put your own spin on it, but you gotta make sure you’re getting in front of people. It’s the same with subject lines. If your subject line isn’t amazing, no one’s going to open your email, and no one’s going to know about all the goodness that you have. Same with titles of your content.

So number one is focus on creating high-value quality content that people are actually searching for. Don’t just pull it out of thin air and be like, “This might be nice.” The good news is, you’ll have a lot of that information because you’ve done the ideal client research.

Joe:I have been reminded… because I just do things I think are good ideas. I have been reminded that I am not my ideal customer. It’s something important to remember. This is great advice.AnswerThePublic. I’m definitely going to check that one out because I’ve never heard of it before. Really excited about that.Jennifer Bournwas on the show early on this year and she also talks about joining Facebook groups and even paid communities where people are asking questions of like… communities for your ideal customer, not communities of whatever you do professionally totally.

Michelle Knight:Totally. And that’s what reallyAnswerThePubliccan also point you to forums and like Reddit and stuff, so then you can read through that. Full disclaimer. I actually hate Facebook groups. So I love them for paid stuff.

Joe:Me too.

Michelle Knight:But I don’t have my own account. I just stopped that a long time ago when I learned about evergreen content. But I will go into Facebook groups and just use the search function and just see what questions people are asking for support on and then write a blog post about it. So you’re totally right. It’s a great tool for ideal client research.

Joe:That’s awesome. And then one more tool based on YouTube is vidIQ. Have you heard of this one?

Michelle Knight:Yes. I love vidIQ.

Joe:I think it’s really been helpful for me. I’ve only kind of used it superficially. Just like when I create a video, the extension in Chrome is there, and it’s like suggesting keywords. I really need to dive deep into it, though, because I think that it could be a really valuable tool for me. My channel is monetized now, and the amount I make is more than what they charge monthly.

Michelle Knight:There you go.

Joe:I think it’s a good investment.

Michelle Knight:Well, it’s funny, because that actually is tip number two, which is to actually optimize your content. So you’re creating a high value content, you’re creating content that people are searching for, and then make sure that you’re actually optimizing that content. So no matter what platform evergreen platform you’re choosing will focus on YouTube, specifically, there are tools out there to tell you and give you tips on what keywords to use. Think about optimizing the title for search.

The title, for instance, I might write a blog post that has a different title than a video of the same content that I put on YouTube, because I’m really paying attention to optimizing it for each of the platforms. Your thumbnail, right? Like making sure that these pieces are in place because they play a huge role in your content actually getting seen. We think like, “We’re going to have an amazing video, and everyone’s going to find it.” It really comes down to title and keywords and first impression. And that’s it. Those could be great and your video could suck and you’ll still rank as number one. We want it to be great all across the board so people want to hear more from you, but make sure when you’re creating this content, you’re taking the time to optimize it. Whether that’s SEO for blogging, writing your description, making sure your title and your keywords and your headers are in there. Same with Pinterest. Same with YouTube.

Joe:Awesome. The YouTube thumbnail super-duper important.

Michelle Knight:It’s crazy.

Joe:I never thought about it until I noticed that all the people who were making similar content to me had them making a face and then pointing.

Michelle Knight:It’s like a whole thing right now.

Joe:It’s usually a screengrab of me that I like cut out and put but I just can’t… I saw one where I was like one finger up and looking like a teacher, and I’m like, “You look so unnatural.” But I’m doing my best. vidIQ is cool because it’ll show your thumbnail embedded with other thumbnails too in a search.

Michelle Knight:Well, now you can do like gifs thumbnails.

Joe:What?

Michelle Knight:Yeah. You can do moving thumbnails.

Joe:Breaking news. I did not know that.

Michelle Knight:Breaking news.

Joe:Awesome. I’m going to look into that too. I got a lot of homework for this episode.

Michelle Knight:Sorry.

Joe:Michelle, this has been so much fun. I do need to ask you my favorite question, which is, do you have any trade secrets for us?

Michelle Knight:Oh, man. I’m going to bring it back to the beginning on the storytelling piece. This is my secret. This is my secret. Not enough people do it. I’m going to challenge you that every piece of content that you create has a micro-story in it somewhere. Now that micro-story can be in the introduction, where you introduce what you’re sharing, and why you’re sharing it. That micro-story can be in the actual education piece of it. It can be at the end. But the thing with storytelling that is so amazing is the effect that it has in our audience’s brain. So when you incorporate even just one single sentence of storytelling in your content, your audience is 22 times more likely to remember it. I don’t know about you, but I want people to remember my stuff. So even just that simple thing…

There’s neural co… I nerd out on this stuff. But there’s neural coupling that happens when we hear other people’s stories. So our brains are activated, dopamine is released. We feel good. And it doesn’t have to be an earth-shaking story as I like to say. It’s so small relatable moments. So that has been my secret. Every piece of content that I create, every podcast that I’m on, everything that you will see for me has a tiny little bit of storytelling in it, whether it’s mine or my ideal customer’s, or what I like to call future casting, which is like a pretend made up kind of figurative story because it’s so, so powerful, and will serve you on both branding and the marketing level and selling honestly.

Joe:That’s awesome. Micro story. I love it. As you say that, something has clicked for me. Because one of my most popular pieces of content right now is a blog post that’s titled “Why Gear Matters Least when You’re Starting a Podcast. I tell a story about how growing up my favorite baseball player was Paul O’Neill and I wanted to bat like Paul O’Neill, but me trying to mimic him and look and sound like him, quote-unquote, didn’t work for me because first of all, I’m not a lefty. Second of all, he’s very tall. So I just think that’s great. Challenge accepted.

Michelle Knight:All right.

Joe:As I write more blog posts, I’m going to include a micro-story in each. I’m glad you said in the educational piece or at the end. Mine was towards the end. And I was questioning that. I’m like, “Should I put it up front to hook the reader?” But I think the headline hooked them enough to keep reading.

Michelle Knight:It always depends on what you’re presenting. Sometimes if you have to give a backstory, especially like we talked about, educational content does really well because that’s what people are searching for. Sometimes you want to set that up. If we’re sharing a misconception or mistakes or how to do something, we might want to share our journey with that. But sometimes you can just hook by asking questions or speaking directly to your ideal customer. But yeah, no matter where, put that story in there. I don’t care where it is.

Joe:Awesome. Michelle, this has been an absolute pleasure. If people want to learn more about you, where can they find you? Instagram?

Michelle Knight:Yeah, definitely find me on Instagram. You can go to my website, which is fully optimized. It’sbrandmerry.com. There’s links to all the things, tons of blog and video content on there, a freebie so you can join my email list You know, all the things.

Joe:All the good stuff. Awesome. I will include that and all sorts of links that we talked about in the show notes over atstreamlined.fm/210. If you want to hear Michelle and I talk more about the do’s and don’ts of specific platforms, maybe a little bit about travel because you mentioned something interesting in the pre-show, you can sign up for theCreator Crewover andbuildsomething.club. It’s a paltry $5 a month, and you get lots of really fantastic content, and a custom member chip—it’s a poker chip with a podcast logo on it. I love it. But in any case, Michelle, thanks so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it.

Michelle Knight:Thank you for having me.

Joe: And thanks to our sponsors: Mindsize, Restrict Content Pro, and TextExpander. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time, get out there and build something.

Joe:Real quick before we get started, I want to tell you about theBuild Something Weeklynewsletter. It is weekly, it is free, and you will get tips, tricks, and tools delivered directly to your mailbox. I will recap the current week’s episode and all of the takeaways, I’ll give you a top story, content I wrote, and then some recommendations that I’ve been using that I think you should check out. So it is free, it is a weekly, it’s over at streamlined.fm/subscribe. Go ahead and sign up over atstreamlined.fm/subscribe.

Intro:Hey, everybody, and welcome to Episode 210 of How I Built It, the podcast that asks, How did you build that? Today’s sponsors areMindsize,Restrict Content Pro, andTextExpander, who you will be hearing about later on in the show. Now, if you are aCreator Crewmember, if you’re subscribed to Build Something More but you happen to be picking up the normal feed, definitely get the Build Something More feed because we, Michelle and I, had a fantastic pre-show conversation, which is a show first. I’m sending out the pre-show because it was really good. Speaking of, my guest is Michelle Knight. She is the personal branding and marketing strategist over atBrandmerry. Michelle, how are you today?

Michelle Knight:Oh, great. Thanks for having me. Loved our little pre-show chat.

Joe:Likewise. Likewise. Thanks for joining me on the show here. Thanks for joining us. It was a lot of fun and nerd culture and WandaVision. First of all, if you’re not watching WandaVision, you should watch WandaVision. I guess by the time this comes out, we will actually be behind. So, if you haven’t seen it, spoiler alert. But if you’re all caught up, you know, don’t talk past what happened. That’s what we’re talking about today.

We’re talking today about how to market your business without relying on social media, which I’m really excited about. I was looking at your website, again, personal branding consultant. I think this is a really good topic to talk about because I feel like I was telling my students about this like 10 years ago. I was teaching at the college level, college freshmen a computer literacy course, and I’m like, “You need to have a personal brand.” And they’re like, “Who cares?” But now fast forward to 2021, I feel like that’s even more important. So before we dive into the kind of social media stuff, I suspect having a strong personal brand will help with that. Why don’t you tell us a little bit more about what you do there?

Michelle Knight:Yeah, absolutely. I founded my companyBrandmerryright after my son was born in 2016 out of just the need to be home, to just not want to commute to work anymore. I had a background in PR, background in communications and I dove headfirst into creating my online business with really kind of wearing this coach consultant hat. I struggled a lot. I had no idea what I was doing. I felt like I was mimicking everybody else. I spent months creating a website that then didn’t look like or sound like me, which is highly relatable to a lot of people.

About nine months into it, when I was planning on leaving my nine to five, I was like, “Something needs to shift.” So I started to do more and more research outside as well as some internal research to figure out who I was and what I really wanted to build a brand around. And everything really started to shift for me at that point in time. I started to show up in a different way, I started to really express myself, I did more live videos and I started to share more stories. And instantly, I saw connections start to happen.

The same people who had been in my community for months were buying from me suddenly. And I didn’t change the offer. All I did was change how I was showing up and creating a brand that was a representation of that. So that’s what I really fell in love with personal branding and storytelling, and I spent, the next three or four years really focusing on that aspect, teaching entrepreneurs specifically how to figure out, number one, who they are and how they want to show up online and then creating a brand and a product suite that’s in alignment with that mission. And then I’ve moved in the last couple of years to focus on, now, how do we market that? Because you realize really quickly that you can have an amazing personal brand, you can have an amazing product, but if you don’t know how to effectively market it, then nobody else is going to know about it.

Joe:I love that. And it’s so funny that you mentioned that because I feel like between the pre-show and this you must have been listening into the solo episode I recorded right before this, which wasEpisode 205, where I talked about my failed Patreon experiment. It’s the same thing. I started this podcast in 2016. I went self-employed in 2017 after my daughter was born, and I thought, “I need to launch memberships. I need to launch a membership for my podcast.” And I just copied everyone else’s benefits, everyone else’s levels. And I’m like, “How come no one’s buying?” And then I came to realize I’m just promising a bunch of stuff that I don’t even know if I can deliver or not. So I took that down, and I’ve changed directions. Well, now people are actually buying my membership because it reflects me and what I can offer. So I think that’s fantastic.

Michelle Knight:Well, I tell people all the time that people don’t buy the product or the service, there’s a million products and services that are exactly the same across the board. If people really just focused on that, then they would just buy the first thing that they see. But it’s about that connection, it’s about that relationship. And that’s why personal branding is so important.

Joe:Yeah, absolutely. As people listen to this, I know that’s something I struggled with early on when I was freelancing and making websites for people was, how do I write my copy? Do I write “I”? Do I write “we”? Who is this? Is it the royal we? So maybe we can start there? How you present yourself, as you said, is so integral to connecting with customers, with selling more products and services? I or we?

Michelle Knight:I think it depends. I think when you’re starting a business and you’re the sole CEO and face of that business, I always recommend going with “I”. Primarily because, who is the “we”? You and your imaginary team, probably not in the beginning. You’re the decision-maker at that point in time. The “I” allows for more of that personal connection. If you’re working with a company, I think you go back and forth. If we’re speaking on behalf of the company, I have a background in nonprofit management, if you’re speaking on behalf of the nonprofit and the work that they do, it’s a “we”. But if your CEO is stepping out and saying something, sharing their story, sharing what they’re doing, it’s an “I”.

And then I guess as your business evolves, and I see this a lot, especially as someone who has added more team members and is moving more into a company role, I go back and forth between the two. If it’s me, I’m showing up, I’m sharing a story, I’m focusing on connecting, I’m the one telling the story. But if I’m talking about the team as a whole and we made this decision, then I can share that. So right out of the gate, I say default to “I”. As you grow, incorporate the “we.”

Joe:I think that’s great. And that’s generally the advice that I’ve recommended as well just because, you know, there are benefits to working one on one with a freelancer. And maybe they’re not available 24/7 but they are there to fully understand your business to be invested in a way that some giant agency can’t be.

Michelle Knight:Totally.

Joe:Awesome. So when it comes to building your personal brand, we’re not just talking about website copy and “I” or “we.” What are we talking about? If I wanted to start investing in more of a personal brand for me, where would I start? Would I look inwardly? Would I do some research into things I should consider? What does the process look like?

Michelle Knight:It’s kind of all of that. I like to say that branding as a whole, and I think it’s important to say, is an experience. I think very old school and what I thought even just five years ago was like, “Let me get my website up. Let me choose my colors and my fonts. If I do that everything will be fine.” And we’ve really learned. And now that information is so readily available to us, that it’s not about those things. It really is about the experience that we’re creating. And those things can help with that process, but at the end of the day, it’s that voice, it’s that mission, it’s how we’re carrying through everything that we’re doing, from website design to coffee to our products and our offers.

The method that I teach is first to look inward because as a recovering perfectionist, I have a tendency to go outward, and say, “Oh, what are you doing? That seems to be working. Let me just copy that.” And that’s what happened in the beginning of my business. So I recommend going inward first. The first practice that I love to guide people through is just what’s your story because one of the first pieces of copy that everyone should really write is their brand story. And it’s one of the most fun things that you can create in the beginning.

So going inward and saying, “What is my story? What has led me to where I am today? What’s the purpose behind me wanting to put my work out in the world?” As I mentioned before, I’m from a nonprofit background. So I always recommend my clients establish a mission for their brand. What are your values? These are the things that you want to identify right out of the gate so that you can make sure that you’re always showing up in those pieces—your brand is always showing up.

Then the second piece of this is, all right, now, who do you want to attract? A lot of people forget this step of the personal brand, and then we start showing up sharing content and stories and it’s not resonating with people because it’s just about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I, when what we share needs to resonate with the people that we want to attract. So, you’re not showing up and just like writing your biography online. You’re building a business.

So the stories that you share, the content that you share, even the colors that you choose needs to come down to, you know, how do I want my audience to feel? What are they seeking? What are they looking for? What’s happened in their life? That portion of it is where we get more into research, you know, the dreaded ideal client research that everyone hates. But I swear you have to do it. I personally love it. But that’s where that piece comes in.

So then you combine those two things together, and you say, “All right, now let me decide what offer can I create based on my expertise that my audience absolutely needs? Because I know them so well at this point. What types of messages can I create that showcase my expertise and my strengths that resonate with my ideal customer. And so everything then kind of pulls on those two pieces as you build your business.

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And now let’s get back to it.

Joe:This is the exact thing that I said, again, in that episode I just recorded. “I made the Patreon copy about me and I started my own business and I want to make content full time. And you should give me money so I can make content full time.” And I just read it back recently and I’m like, “What was I even thinking?” Who cares? Who cares that I want to make content? People want good content, and they will support good content, but they’re not just going to give me money to create it because I want to create, I should say.

Michelle Knight:Exactly. Unless you’re a celebrity, and then maybe they’ll be so obsessed with you and your life that they’re like, “Yeah, sign me up to watch behind the scenes.” But the majority of us are not there. And I think too, just circling back to what you said, everyone wants to know what’s in it for me? What’s the benefit? So even if you are at a stage where maybe you’re sharing behind-the-scenes stuff, why should someone pay you to see that? What’s the benefit to them? So no matter what you’re doing with your copy with your content, even with storytelling, where you might be saying, “My son was one month postpartum when I started my business,” you still gotta turn it back around to your audience and provide value to them so it’s not like a talking head situation.

Joe:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that’s fantastic. And then looking inwardly, I think that’s really important. A book that has just resonated with me ever since the day I read it was “Start With Why” by Simon Sinek. And it’s what you said there. A lot of the same things. It’s figure out why you’re doing something. Establish your mission. And then everything should focus around that.

Now, a lot of the listeners here are small business owners. A lot are in the WordPress space, but a lot aren’t. I guess that was a weird thing to say. That’s redundant. A lot of people are definitely small business owners who maybe don’t have the time or resources to fully invest in something like this. Are there one or two things that they should really focus on first and then maybe build out over time?

Michelle Knight:Yeah. What I always recommend is get super clear on those two pieces that we just talked about. You understand, like I said, your mission, craft, understand what has led you to where you are. Because doing that story work allows you to pull on the strengths and the experiences that you’ve had, which then you can share through your copy and your content.

And then you’ve got to do the ideal client research. Don’t tell me you don’t have time for it, because you’re going to suffer. People come to me and they’re like, “I don’t know what content to share.” And I’m like, “Do your ideal client research.” “I don’t know how to write a better copy.” Do your ideal client research. We always want to think there’s some mystery formula that we just have to follow. But it really is just like do the work, do the dirty work and you’re going to be set up for success in your business. I call it the foundation. One of my first coaches was like, “You shouldn’t use that word. It’s not sexy.” And I was like, “I don’t care.” It’s legit what I’m teaching. You build a foundation like you would a building so that you continue to add to it. And it just topples on top of itself. So those two pieces are key.

I tell entrepreneurs all the time you don’t need a perfect website. You don’t need… Designers don’t come at me. But you don’t need to hire a designer in your first year of business. There are so many tools out there. Go into Canva, put some colors in there, and make a logo. You don’t even need a frickin logo, which branding people always come at me for that too. It really comes down to your copy and your messaging. If you can write clearly to your ideal customer, you can have a white background on a sales page with black copy and a photo and a button and you will still make sales.

Joe:Yep, absolutely. What you said there really reminds me of like, get super clear on your mission. If you don’t do the ideal client research, you’re wasting your time. It reminds me of just last night, I woke up in the middle of the night. My son was hungry, he was crying. I didn’t want him to wake up my daughter. So I ran downstairs and I pulled a bottle out of the fridge. Now I knew I should have warmed it up. Because he doesn’t like cold formula. But I was like it’ll be fine. And I tried feeding him for like 10 minutes and he kept rejecting it and then I had to go back downstairs. And then he drank it all. But I wasted probably 20 minutes there. And I knew. So don’t serve your business cold formula I guess is what I’m trying to say.

Michelle Knight:I love, love, love that analogy. And you wasted 20 minutes, but entrepreneurs waste years.

Joe:Me too. I’ve done it.

Michelle Knight:I start working with entrepreneurs and they’re like, “I have a website. I post every day on social media. I’m doing the things.” And when we nearly get down to it, there are gaps in their foundational pieces. That small tweaks fix and then suddenly it’s like, “Oh, sweet. Now I just need to show up and keep running with this and scale my business.”

Joe:Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned social media. Part of the reason that I had you on the show, which by the way, Brittany Lin, and I know I’ve mentioned her on the show before, she’s helped me out. She’s helped me figure out my kind of ideal client stuff and the niches I want to be in, connected us. And the thing that caught me the most was how to market your business without relying on social media. I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say, “I learned a long time ago that if you build it, they will come. That field of dreams marketing does not work. As a developer, that was a very hard lesson for me to learn. But then I just moved on to another fallacy, which is if I tweet it, they will come. I thought if I launched a course, if I tweet that I launched the course, people will see it’s great and they will buy it. But that’s not really how it works.

Michelle Knight:No, unfortunately. I mean, fortunately for me because I teach the strategies, but unfortunately for us as entrepreneurs. Like I said, I was right there too. I spent eight months with my husband trying to figure out this whole website thing. And then I launched it, like full champagne toast video on Instagram, like full thing, nobody came. My mom maybe. And that website even sat there for months and months and months and wasn’t getting consistent traffic.

So, I think like you were saying, one of the first things is that we build a website, and then we’re like, “All the people will find my website.” But it doesn’t work like that. So then we go to social media, which is really the first thing that we’re taught when we want to start a business. “Just post on Facebook, post on Instagram, post on Twitter, and people will find you.” But the reality is that people are using those platforms to find things. They are using those platforms for connection.

So a lot of entrepreneurs use social media solely as the top level for getting in front of their cold audience and attracting that. The brand awareness stage basically. When really social media at emphasis should be more on that connection stage, moving your audience through the buying process, the personal branding aspect, then watching you on Insta stories. Are you making a funny reel? Are those different things? That’s where it should be. But so many entrepreneurs were focused on it to find new people, and then build their email platform. And then they grow by like five people every two weeks, and they get frustrated, when there’s actually a better way as I have come to find out.

Joe:Yes. We’re going to talk about that. Perhaps in Build Something More we can talk about maybe effective social media uses, right? Because like you mentioned reels, and I’m like, “I don’t know how to use reels.” Somebody just invited me to Clubhouse today and I don’t know what I’m doing there. In Build Something More, we’ll talk about specific social media platforms, what to do, what not to do. But you have a better way besides just tweeting or writing on Facebook, “Hey, my website. Come check out my website.” My friends and family don’t care that I sell podcast courses. They don’t really know I have a podcast.

Michelle Knight:It’s not that I hate social media. And I tell people this, I actually love it. I love hanging out on there and having fun. But it should not be what we rely on to build our email list, to attract consistent leads, and convert to sales. You think of a triangle, an upside-down triangle, we’ve all seen it like a pyramid, you’ve got that cold traffic coming in the top. That has to be consistent. Otherwise, the bottoms just going to dry up. You’re not going to have anybody moving into a paying customer. So these more evergreen strategies that I love to teach are the strategies that allow those consistent leads to come in without requiring you to consistently create new content every single day.

Joe:I was going to say you’re speaking my language because my wife, and listeners now, my wife’s a nurse, she works three 12 hour shifts a week, which means on those days I’m watching my kids. So I’m not working. I don’t have time to create that kind of new content. Evergreen strategies sound like exactly what I need.

Michelle Knight:This came about for me on accident really, because I had done the things, as we’ve talked about, I built the business and I did hit six figures in my business in a year through a lot of exhaustive hustle. I was raising a baby, I was working nine to five for the first nine months. So I was optimizing my strategies, I had some systems in place, but I was like, “There’s no way I can grow past this, and maintain this same idea.” So that’s when I really started to look at things like Pinterest, search engine optimization, the power of Google and blogging, YouTube video, or more of the search engine platforms where people are seeking out support in these areas, getting them, hooking them and then nurturing and building my community through fun content.

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Joe:Maybe let’s pick one. Maybe let’s do YouTube, right?

Michelle Knight:Okay.

Joe:You said that you found YouTube as… that’s the number two search engine in the world. Google is number one, and then Google owns YouTube is number two. People go there to learn things. So if I’m trying to develop an effective strategy for building an audience through these evergreen strategies, is YouTube a good channel for that?

Michelle Knight:It is. I always tell people to really think about how they like to create content. So some people love video. I’m one of those people. And I love video to be my core piece of content. So one of the things that I teach is repurposing. And people call me the repurposing Queen because I can take one piece of content and I can turn it into like 32 pieces of content.

Joe:Awesome.

Michelle Knight:So some people like video, some people write and so they prefer blogging. Truly the strategies are the same across the board. So that’s what’s cool. I mean, the way you upload your title, and maybe your keywords is different placement but the process that you go through is the same. And the reason that these all work, again, is because there’s search engines. Same with Pinterest, which a lot of people don’t think about. But Pinterest is where you go, you type in the search bar, it’s all keyword optimized and so people will find your content. I don’t know about you, but I don’t search for anything on Facebook. No.

So when you’re thinking about these different platforms, and I’m happy to share some of the steps on that, but what I really want to drive home to is that you’re hitting people at every single stage of the buying process. So rather than just attracting somebody who’s maybe looking for content, we’re also attracting and getting in front of people who are ready to buy. So there’s the stages of the buying process. Someone understands they’ve got a problem, and so they’re looking for options to solve their problem. Then they move into the research stage, which is where people are googling and looking on YouTube and stuff like that, then they’re aware of a solution. So now they’re trying to explore, like, what’s the best solution for them. They’ve figured it out and now they’re shopping around to figure out which one they’re going to buy. And then they become a buyer.

There are people who are at stage five, who are like, “I have my money, I want to give it to someone.” I’m telling you, they’re going to Google, they’re typing in what they want, and then they’re hitting up the first 30 people. And I know that because that’s where most of my clients come from is just searching in branding coach, and landing on my website, strong personal brand, investing the money. That’s what’s so cool about the whole concept of evergreen SEO optimized content is you’re able to get people in every single stage, whether they’re just looking for help with three tips to write a better story, they might land on a blog post, or they’re just ready to pull out their credit card.

Joe:I think that’s fantastic. And it’s so funny that you mentioned Pinterest because I hadChelsea Clarkeon the show a few episodes ago and that was her trade secret.

Michelle Knight:Yes, mine too.

Joe:She was like, “Not enough people are using Pinterest.” So I think that’s so funny. I told Chelsea I would look into it now. I definitely will look into it. That’s incredible. This is really interesting that you say that. Because again, the conventional wisdom says like, “You need to get people at the top of the funnel and you introduce yourself. And then you get them on your mailing list and then you market to them for like 14 years and then maybe they’re right on. But people who are ready to spend money, those are probably the best people to directly market to in the short term. I don’t want to say that the nurturing is bad, obviously, because it’s great. But if people are willing to spend their money, they might as well spend it with you.

Michelle Knight:Totally. The nurturing part is so fun. I’ve had things where I’m like, “Oh, you’re cool. Let me just see what you’re about and I’ll buy down the road.” But I think as a business owner, it’s important to understand that your ideal customer could be at these different stages. And when you create this evergreen type of content, you’re able to show up and pull them in no matter what stage they’re at, rather than social media, which is totally different. Not to mention actually getting it in front of people who are searching for it is near impossible. So that’s why these strategies are so helpful in sustainably growing your business, getting those consistent leads, and making that consistent sale.

Joe:I think that’s super important. Again, if we’re talking about YouTube, just, for example, people are finding that evergreen content. I know because I see the comments come in on my YouTube videos, the most popular ones, and it’s like, “How to do separate audio tracks with Zoom.” Or my friends are like, “Dude, I searched on YouTube and you were the first one to come up. Great video.” How do I… how does one… I don’t want to make this seem like it’s about me. I was always that guy in class who raised his hand and asked a question because I knew I had that question but I assumed like half of the class also had that question.

Michelle Knight:Totally.

Joe:How do I get them from YouTube to mailing list? Or is from YouTube to mailing list even the right move? You say all these people are at different stages. What’s my call to action post-YouTube video?

Michelle Knight:I always recommend email list. Because I always say an email is the first investment that someone will make in your business. And when we start thinking about email addresses as currency, everything changes. It pains me when people are like, “Come follow me on Instagram.” Or like, “Just like this video,” and that’s it. It’s like, no, if someone’s watched the end of your video for YouTube specifically and they’re engaged, they’re ready for the next step. So give them that opportunity.

So across the board, no matter what you do, I always recommend some sort of lead magnet, some way to get somebody on your email list. And in service base, that’s typically something free. A free guide, a free video free something. But it can also be product-based. A coupon. Take a quiz. There’s all kinds of different things that you can do. But that’s really important because people are typically like, “This is great. I want more of this.” And we want to get them on our email list. Because although your email list is maybe on a platform that you don’t control, the reality is you do have more control over that information than Facebook or Instagram. If Instagram went down, and that was all that you were using to get in touch with your community, you would be screwed. But if you have an email list on the back end, you can download that spreadsheet, move to a different platform email, get really creative with it. So across the board, I recommend that.

And because these pieces of content are evergreen, I very rarely recommend pitching a product or a service unless it too is evergreen. So if you have a course that you sell all the time or a membership site that people can join or even something that opens multiple times a year, and you’re just saying hey, “I offer this inside of my program, go here to learn more.” And then if they land their doors are open great. If not, they can join a waitlist. But yeah, across the board, always, always email list. I’m a firm believer in that one.

Joe:Awesome. I’m really glad to hear that because that’s also what I’ve been preaching. I’m like, I’m a guy I know some things, but it’s always good to hear from the experts. But also I haven’t been good about that. I always end my YouTube videos with “like” and “smash that like button.” I’ve never said that for real.

Michelle Knight:Thank you.

Joe:“Like and subscribe,” and then my tagline. I’ll have like a card right so people can go, or the icon on the end screen. I’ve put a lot of time into my end screens, but saying it verbally in the video is super important, right? If you like what I’m talking about, get the free guide for whatever, 5 Zoom tips that’ll make you look even better. I just thought of that lead magnet now…

Michelle Knight:I like it.

Joe:By the time this comes out…

Michelle Knight:It might be really valuable for a lot of people today.

Joe:Yeah. I think that’s really important. And I really needed to hear that because at first, I wasn’t sure. But you’re right about owning your platform. I export my subscriber list like once every six weeks, which makes me sound like a crazy person. I use ConvertKit and I assume they’re not going anywhere because they’re really great. But if they disappear one day, I’m losing a bunch of email addresses.

Michelle Knight:I use ConvertKit too. We do the same thing. We’re really adamant about our email list over here. I say we now because my team member actually does it. I don’t have to do it anymore. But we not only download but clean our list quite frequently. We get a lot of subscribers every day and I invest in advertising and some of those different avenues as well. I want to make sure that the people who are there actually want to be there. So we frequently like to clean our list to help with that as well. So there’s a little bonus tip for those of you.

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Joe:We are moving into the tips for listeners segment of the show. You’ve given us so much. But let’s say that somebody have taken your first two pieces of advice. Look inward, what’s your story, figure out your ideal client. What’s the next step? What should they do from there?

Michelle Knight:I think from there, it really becomes creating content, we want to wait to create content until… I feel like I’m beating a dead horse, right? …we have the website up or the thing. But if you want to sell you need to have people to sell to. One of the best things that you can do once you’ve got a little solid ground with “Who am I? Who do I want to attract? What’s my mission? What am I offering?” then start putting content out there so that you can start building your audience.

The first thing that I recommend is focus on quality content. Focus on things people are searching for. I’m holding my eyes right now—people can’t see me—because I’m trying to meditate. People always say, “What do I talk about? What do I create content about?” I’m like, “Go Google. See what people are searching for.” If you really want to show up, go into your niche and figure out what people need help with. There are so many free tools out there.

I’m going to tell you some of them now.AnswerThePublicis an awesome free tool. All of these give you a limited amount of searches every day, but still just go do it every day for like five days, and you’ll be solid for 90 days.AnswerThePublicwill tell you the top questions being asked on Google. And you can type in your industry, you can type in your ideal customer, you can type in pain points, and they will tell you exactly what people are asking for. You can use a tool called Keywords Everywhere, which is a small investment but amazing when you’re wanting to do SEO. It’ll tell you how many monthly searches keywords get.

You know you might be like, “This is great,” and it gets zero searches a month. It’s really going to help you. You can change even a little bit of the language, you can get thousand searches a month, and that’s amazing. You can even use YouTube specifically because they will autofill for you. So go to the search bar and type in something relevant to what you’re offering and let it tell you what the top searches are. So doing research and having that strong strategy in place to create content that people are actually searching for is important. And then you put your spin on it.

I did a podcast episode the other day on morning routines. It was like pulling teeth from my team to get me to do this because I was like, “I’m not doing fluff content.” And they’re like, “Everyone keeps asking for this. Everyone wants this.” So I put my own spin on it. And it’s been a huge download. And I’ve gotten tons of messages that are like, “Oh my gosh, I love this.” You get to put your own spin on it, but you gotta make sure you’re getting in front of people. It’s the same with subject lines. If your subject line isn’t amazing, no one’s going to open your email, and no one’s going to know about all the goodness that you have. Same with titles of your content.

So number one is focus on creating high-value quality content that people are actually searching for. Don’t just pull it out of thin air and be like, “This might be nice.” The good news is, you’ll have a lot of that information because you’ve done the ideal client research.

Joe:I have been reminded… because I just do things I think are good ideas. I have been reminded that I am not my ideal customer. It’s something important to remember. This is great advice.AnswerThePublic. I’m definitely going to check that one out because I’ve never heard of it before. Really excited about that.Jennifer Bournwas on the show early on this year and she also talks about joining Facebook groups and even paid communities where people are asking questions of like… communities for your ideal customer, not communities of whatever you do professionally totally.

Michelle Knight:Totally. And that’s what reallyAnswerThePubliccan also point you to forums and like Reddit and stuff, so then you can read through that. Full disclaimer. I actually hate Facebook groups. So I love them for paid stuff.

Joe:Me too.

Michelle Knight:But I don’t have my own account. I just stopped that a long time ago when I learned about evergreen content. But I will go into Facebook groups and just use the search function and just see what questions people are asking for support on and then write a blog post about it. So you’re totally right. It’s a great tool for ideal client research.

Joe:That’s awesome. And then one more tool based on YouTube is vidIQ. Have you heard of this one?

Michelle Knight:Yes. I love vidIQ.

Joe:I think it’s really been helpful for me. I’ve only kind of used it superficially. Just like when I create a video, the extension in Chrome is there, and it’s like suggesting keywords. I really need to dive deep into it, though, because I think that it could be a really valuable tool for me. My channel is monetized now, and the amount I make is more than what they charge monthly.

Michelle Knight:There you go.

Joe:I think it’s a good investment.

Michelle Knight:Well, it’s funny, because that actually is tip number two, which is to actually optimize your content. So you’re creating a high value content, you’re creating content that people are searching for, and then make sure that you’re actually optimizing that content. So no matter what platform evergreen platform you’re choosing will focus on YouTube, specifically, there are tools out there to tell you and give you tips on what keywords to use. Think about optimizing the title for search.

The title, for instance, I might write a blog post that has a different title than a video of the same content that I put on YouTube, because I’m really paying attention to optimizing it for each of the platforms. Your thumbnail, right? Like making sure that these pieces are in place because they play a huge role in your content actually getting seen. We think like, “We’re going to have an amazing video, and everyone’s going to find it.” It really comes down to title and keywords and first impression. And that’s it. Those could be great and your video could suck and you’ll still rank as number one. We want it to be great all across the board so people want to hear more from you, but make sure when you’re creating this content, you’re taking the time to optimize it. Whether that’s SEO for blogging, writing your description, making sure your title and your keywords and your headers are in there. Same with Pinterest. Same with YouTube.

Joe:Awesome. The YouTube thumbnail super-duper important.

Michelle Knight:It’s crazy.

Joe:I never thought about it until I noticed that all the people who were making similar content to me had them making a face and then pointing.

Michelle Knight:It’s like a whole thing right now.

Joe:It’s usually a screengrab of me that I like cut out and put but I just can’t… I saw one where I was like one finger up and looking like a teacher, and I’m like, “You look so unnatural.” But I’m doing my best. vidIQ is cool because it’ll show your thumbnail embedded with other thumbnails too in a search.

Michelle Knight:Well, now you can do like gifs thumbnails.

Joe:What?

Michelle Knight:Yeah. You can do moving thumbnails.

Joe:Breaking news. I did not know that.

Michelle Knight:Breaking news.

Joe:Awesome. I’m going to look into that too. I got a lot of homework for this episode.

Michelle Knight:Sorry.

Joe:Michelle, this has been so much fun. I do need to ask you my favorite question, which is, do you have any trade secrets for us?

Michelle Knight:Oh, man. I’m going to bring it back to the beginning on the storytelling piece. This is my secret. This is my secret. Not enough people do it. I’m going to challenge you that every piece of content that you create has a micro-story in it somewhere. Now that micro-story can be in the introduction, where you introduce what you’re sharing, and why you’re sharing it. That micro-story can be in the actual education piece of it. It can be at the end. But the thing with storytelling that is so amazing is the effect that it has in our audience’s brain. So when you incorporate even just one single sentence of storytelling in your content, your audience is 22 times more likely to remember it. I don’t know about you, but I want people to remember my stuff. So even just that simple thing…

There’s neural co… I nerd out on this stuff. But there’s neural coupling that happens when we hear other people’s stories. So our brains are activated, dopamine is released. We feel good. And it doesn’t have to be an earth-shaking story as I like to say. It’s so small relatable moments. So that has been my secret. Every piece of content that I create, every podcast that I’m on, everything that you will see for me has a tiny little bit of storytelling in it, whether it’s mine or my ideal customer’s, or what I like to call future casting, which is like a pretend made up kind of figurative story because it’s so, so powerful, and will serve you on both branding and the marketing level and selling honestly.

Joe:That’s awesome. Micro story. I love it. As you say that, something has clicked for me. Because one of my most popular pieces of content right now is a blog post that’s titled “Why Gear Matters Least when You’re Starting a Podcast. I tell a story about how growing up my favorite baseball player was Paul O’Neill and I wanted to bat like Paul O’Neill, but me trying to mimic him and look and sound like him, quote-unquote, didn’t work for me because first of all, I’m not a lefty. Second of all, he’s very tall. So I just think that’s great. Challenge accepted.

Michelle Knight:All right.

Joe:As I write more blog posts, I’m going to include a micro-story in each. I’m glad you said in the educational piece or at the end. Mine was towards the end. And I was questioning that. I’m like, “Should I put it up front to hook the reader?” But I think the headline hooked them enough to keep reading.

Michelle Knight:It always depends on what you’re presenting. Sometimes if you have to give a backstory, especially like we talked about, educational content does really well because that’s what people are searching for. Sometimes you want to set that up. If we’re sharing a misconception or mistakes or how to do something, we might want to share our journey with that. But sometimes you can just hook by asking questions or speaking directly to your ideal customer. But yeah, no matter where, put that story in there. I don’t care where it is.

Joe:Awesome. Michelle, this has been an absolute pleasure. If people want to learn more about you, where can they find you? Instagram?

Michelle Knight: Yeah, definitely find me on Instagram. You can go to my website, which is fully optimized. It’s brandmerry.com. There’s links to all the things, tons of blog and video content on there, a freebie so you can join my email list You know, all the things.

Joe: All the good stuff. Awesome. I will include that and all sorts of links that we talked about in the show notes over at streamlined.fm/210. If you want to hear Michelle and I talk more about the do’s and don’ts of specific platforms, maybe a little bit about travel because you mentioned something interesting in the pre-show, you can sign up for the Creator Crew over and buildsomething.club. It’s a paltry $5 a month, and you get lots of really fantastic content, and a custom member chip—it’s a poker chip with a podcast logo on it. I love it. But in any case, Michelle, thanks so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it.

Michelle Knight:Thank you for having me.

Joe:And thanks to our sponsors:Mindsize,Restrict Content Pro, andTextExpander. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time, get out there and build something.