Why Every Business Owner Needs a Podcast with Krystal Proffitt

 It was a less than 32nd story of me saying one about how I’d procrastinated so long about gift wrapping and I was in the floor of my closet and I was binge watching Emily in Paris, like this was my Sunday or whatever day of the week it was. I had several people actually had this one woman reach out to me and say, “Oh my gosh! I felt so seen when you talked about gift wrapping. You’re, you know, and you were binge watching Emily in Paris”. So it doesn’t have to be this like crafted thing. It could just be these throwaway comments that help your audience relate to who you are as a person. You don’t have to give away your address and your social security number to your audience for them to feel connected with you.” – Krystal Proffitt

Do you really need social media to build a following, to build expertise to be successful? This is something I’ve been thinking about a lot, and I think lots of other creators and solopreneurs are too. The rote advice that you see from the ultra successful people just doesn’t work for most of us, and it doesn’t have to.

What if I told you there was a better way? As it turns out, today’s guest, my friend, and Amazon bestselling author of the book, start a binge-worthy podcast, Krystal Proffitt And I agree, starting a podcast is a great way to build and grow your business.

In today’s conversation, we talk about why podcasting is the best way to build expertise and trust, why there are too many podcasts, and how you can start a successful one. Plus, in the pro-show, we talk about how to do interviews the right way.

Look for these Top Takeaways.

1. Podcasts are a great intimate way to get your content in the hands of your ideal audience. As Seth Godin puts it, this is the generous act of showing up.

2. You differentiate your podcast by making sure your audience feels seen and heard. This could and should be through relatable stories, and by engaging with your audience through feedback.

3. And finally, the first thing that you should think about before you ever consider which mic to buy is what is your message? Without a message, you don’t have a podcast.

And again, in the pro-show, we talk all about interviewing and my least favorite question, but a question that Krystal doesn’t find a problem with: Tell us who are you and what do you do? She will tell you how you can make that question better though. So if you want to hear that conversation ad free, you can become a member over at [streamlined.fm/join]. You can find all of the links that we talk about over at [streamlined.fm/407], but for now, let’s get into the intro and then the interview.

Intro: Hey, everybody. and welcome to How I Built It, the podcast that helps busy solopreneurs and creators grow their business without spending too much time on it. I’m your host, Joe Casabona, and each week I bring you interviews and case studies on how to build a better business through smarter processes, time management, and effective content creation. It’s like getting free coaching calls from successful solopreneurs.

By the end of each episode, you’ll have 1-3 takeaways you can implement today to stop spending time in your business and more time on your business or with your friends, your family, reading, or however you choose to spend your free time.

Joe Casabona: All right. I am here with my friend Krystal Proffitt. Krystal, how are you today?

Krystal Proffitt: I’m fantastic, Joe. I’m excited to be chatting with you. How are you?

Joe Casabona: I am great. I was just gonna like attack you with a question, but I decide, I decided some niceties were in order because, partially because it’s that time of year as we record this where I’m thinking about the conferences that I should or might be going to. And I’m on the fence about crafting commerce and I think this interview with you, ’cause we met there, is gonna help probably put me over the edge, right? Unless you tell me you’re not going this year, then I’m like, well, maybe that’s one reason.

Krystal Proffitt: Joe, I already bought my tickets.

Joe Casabona: See that? So, I think probably…

Krystal Proffitt: Actually, this is even better. I’m going and I’m taking my family. So, I’m one upping you either way, this year.

Joe Casabona: Oh, dang.

Krystal Proffitt: Because when we went last year, I was just like, it’s gorgeous and we’re an outdoor family. So I said, I’m for sure bringing my husband. He was gonna be a must for this trip. And then we were talking, we’re like, why wouldn’t we bring the kids? So we’re actually, we’re going to Boise for a week straight, and we are going to enjoy the site. So, I’m just saying, I’ve already gone, like I’m in. So, it’s on you now. It’s on you.

Joe Casabona: You’re all in now. Your children are a little bit older than my children.

Krystal Proffitt: Yes.

Joe Casabona: Is that right?

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Okay. Yeah. I’m like, I’m very, I guess by that time I’ll have a 7-year-old and just about a 4-year-old and a two and a half year old.

Krystal Proffitt: That’s pretty young. That’s like, you’re still a stroller, like some strollers, some like I’m gonna be carrying someone at this point, at some point in the day I’ll be carrying a napping child. So, yeah.

Joe Casabona: And they’re gonna be real mad about it. So, yeah. I don’t know that I’ll bring them, maybe, you know, maybe I’ll bring my wife. It’s like right around our anniversary.

Krystal Proffitt: See? That’s perfect.

Joe Casabona: We’ll go. Hey, going to Boise for our anniversary. And she’ll be like,

Krystal Proffitt: Yes, that’s perfect. She’s like, wait, what are we doing? You’re like,

Joe Casabona: Hold on. What?

Krystal Proffitt: Well, you know, we’re, we go check out the green belt. Go walk around. You know, Something fun to do.

Joe Casabona: Yeah, exactly. So this portion’s not brought to you by ConvertKit yet, but we’ll see about that. Krystal, where about, we both obviously bonded over our loves of podcasting. And anybody who read the title of this episode knows that we’re gonna talk about why every business owner needs a podcast.

Krystal Proffitt: Yes.

Joe Casabona: But let’s start a couple of steps behind, or before that, right? With, I think a problem on the internet these days of establishing expertise. I have been on the internet a very long time. I had a blog in like 2000, when I was like a teenager and should definitely have not been blogging. And I remember when blogging blew up and so like long form writing was a thing, and SEO was a really important thing. And then like working the every algorithm on social media was a thing, I feel like working the algorithm is no longer an effective thing. So, how do you view the ability for business owners, especially to establish expertise online today?

Krystal Proffitt: Well, I mean, we were talking about this a little bit before we started recording, but Joe and I are in agreeance that everyone should have a podcast first and foremost, but it’s not really for the reason that everyone thinks. It’s not to like have this thing that can go viral and you’re gonna blow up or get a, you know, a hundred million, bajillion dollar deal with Spotify or so, like, those are literally…

Joe Casabona: not an exclusive deal.

Krystal Proffitt: Non-exclusive, non-exclusive, like these are the unicorns that live in our space. But what I look at and the people that are inside my community are mostly small business owners, and they are trying to establish a faster connection with a potential audience or a potential customer. And for me, a podcast, I mean, I can literally pop in my earbuds, go on a walk, and I feel like I am in the room of these thought leaders that are in my industry or people that, you know, celebrities that I’ve always just wanna sit around and know, like well, what do they think? Like what kind of coffee do they drink? Or you know, how do they like to sit down and interact with their friends? So for me, a podcast is an intimate way for you to connect with your people. And I think it’s the new business card, like it used to be, you need to have a website, and of course everybody, you know, had to create a website.

And now, today it’s content. And I think that the podcast still reigns like true to being the easiest one to get started. Because yes, Joe and I like, we’re recording video today and we can do all kinds of fancy things behind the scenes, but at the end of the day, you could still just have an audio only podcast and add that to your website, add it to your marketing strategy, and you’re gonna be so much further ahead than your competition that is just doing a website or maybe a few posts on social media. It just creates a deeper connection.

So, Everyone should have a podcast like mic drop moment. I think we’re done. Like do we even need to record anything else? Are we good?

Joe Casabona: Cut. Print. Do we print? I think this is really important though, right? Because like you said something that Seth Godin said, many like pre pandemic, so like, basically a hundred years ago now is, podcasting is the generous act of showing up. And I think what you said really drives that point home, right? Because most people are not creating content regularly. They have like two or three like super SEOed blog posts. Maybe they’re like pointing AdSense dollars at them or whatever, but when you podcast, like you show people, Hey, I am here. I am learning and teaching with you, and I’m sharing everything in my head with you. And I think that that Is the best way to establish expertise and something that podcasting really lends itself well too.

Krystal Proffitt: A hundred percent. And I think about, you know, and what I always teach people is think about your own consumer behavior habits.

For me, I will literally work out my entire road trip workout. The next time I’m gonna go walk my dog around, which podcast I have to listen to in my phone like I build habits around which podcast I have available. And I’m like, well, this one’s about an hour and a half. Okay. So I can listen to the first part on my workout, but then I can listen to the next one when I’m doing dishes or folding laundry, like these people are in my ears when I am doing the most intimate pieces of my life. And it’s why I love it so much. I don’t have to sit down and watch my phone. I don’t have to, you know, consume it on a tablet or a tv. I can go about my everyday life still being productive. I can work in the yard. I can do all these different things but still have this intimate connection. So that’s what I love about it personally. As someone who consumes a lot of podcasts, maybe we’ll have to start podcasts listening anonymous one day. But you know, I’m just saying, I’m just saying it is one of those things that it is that important to establish those habitual relationships with your audience because man, once you have a true podcast fan, there’s just no going back, like they’re the real deal.

Joe Casabona: Yeah, absolutely true. So I mean, the two things you…convenience, right?

Krystal Proffitt: Yep.

Joe Casabona: Podcasts are convenient. I’ll tell you what. I’m in Jay Clouse’s community and I haven’t communicated this to Jay ’cause I don’t renew for a while, but I was considering no longer renewing or not renewing my membership for another year. I just, you know, there was a point last year where like I was getting too many notifications and like the Circle app was terrible. And so I deleted the Circle app from my phone. And so I felt I wasn’t engaging in the community enough.

And at the beginning of this year, he rolled out Hello Audio and a private feed for all of the members. So, any of the video content in the community also made it to podcasts. Guess what? That single act saved my membership. Because, oh, I get to listen to the town hall instead of having to sit in front of my computer and watch it. Oh, I get to listen to the latest MAI, get to listen to the latest workshop. Most of the time I don’t. The visuals are not that important, right?

Krystal Proffitt: Yep. Yep.

Joe Casabona:. And so I’ll tell, maybe he’s listening. Maybe I’ll definitely tell him this later.

Krystal Proffitt: Pass it along.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. Like that podcast, like gained him another year renew.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Because now I feel engaged with the community again. So, convenience, super important, right?

And then habits. This is another thing that I love talking about with people because they’re like, well, like, how often do I need to publish? And I’m like, you can publish as often as you want or as infrequently as you want, but I’ll tell you what. I don’t recommend new podcasters publish any less than fortnightly, like every two weeks, right? ’cause at a, like, if you’re doing a month, you can’t form a habit.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: You can’t get those listeners to form a habit.

Krystal Proffitt: I always tell, you know, people, it’s like if you ghost your audience, then you can’t be upset if they aren’t there when you come back. Like, I think that that’s the thing, you know, especially, you know, Joe, I don’t know if you’re like this, but my husband and I, if we don’t have a show to watch, we’re like, oh my gosh. Like we gotta find that next show. So, we’re hungry for content. There’s people out there that are hungry for content. So, if you aren’t publishing on a regular basis and you’re not showing up consistency like consistently, your audience is gonna go find someone else. ’cause they are podcast listeners and they’re hungry for the content that is out there. And if you are not providing it, then they are going to find it somewhere else. And so that’s the reality that I often tell people is, you know, stick to consistency, whatever that looks like for you, but just let your audience know. And if you’re gonna take a break, people always ask me about like, Krystal, I’m feeling burned out. Like, can I take a break? They want permission first of all, which I’m like, you can do whatever the heck you want, right?

Joe Casabona: Yeah.

Krystal Proffitt: It’s your show. You do whatever you want. But then I’ll tell them I’m like, that’s great if you take a break, but then tell people when you’re coming back. This is the most important part. And I relate so much of podcasting and YouTube content back to traditional media.

And you can kind of see what they do like I’m a fan of Grey’s Anatomy, okay. You know, people could say whatever they want about the show. I have watched it since I was a senior in high school and I love it so much. I remember getting the DVDs on Netflix, like shipped to my dorm room in college because I was like, I gotta catch up on all these seasons. ’cause I just, I loved it so much, but they will do this so well. They’re like, okay, this is the end the series finale, but we’re coming back on this date. They are so specific about telling you when they’re coming back ’cause they know their fan base is waiting and they’re watching and they wanna know, when am I going to see Grey’s Sloan Memorial and the latest drama that’s happening. Is it gonna be a gunshot? It’s gonna be a bomb. We don’t know. We don’t know what’s gonna happen, but we gotta tell our fans. So you have to do this with your people too.

Joe Casabona: Did you say Grey Sloan Memorial? Is Grey also the name of the hospital?

Krystal Proffitt: Yes. Oh, Joe. Don’t go. Don’t, we can’t go down a rabbit hole. We can’t go down a rabbit hole ’cause we will go, yes, it’s Grey Sloan. It used to be Grey like it’s a whole thing. It’s a whole thing.

Joe Casabona: Gotcha, gotcha. I think we’re around the same age. And as a guy, like a teenage guy, I was talked to absolutely hate Grey’s Anatomy. I was like that. And Titanic.

Krystal Proffitt: Oh my God!

Joe Casabona: I wasn’t allowed to look either of those pieces of media.

Krystal Proffitt: We’ll remain friends even though. I mean, we’re gonna, I mean…

Joe Casabona: Don’t get me wrong. I love Titanic now, obviously, but you know,

Krystal Proffitt: Obviously

Joe Casabona: [Inaudible 16:00.7] whatever. But, so, I love that you say this right, because, you’re right. Like, in America, like British TV does whatever they want basically, right? But in America, it’s last episode of the season is sometime in May. There’s the summer break and it comes back in September, right? It’s like clockwork.

I’ll tell you, my wife and I love the TV show, Handmaid’s Tale. And then when they, we were super into it, watched the first four seasons, and then like when they disappeared and we had no idea when they were coming back, we still haven’t watched Season five.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah..

Joe Casabona: I think it’s on season five, right? Like we just, we found something else. That something else is Ted Lasso? And so, you’re absolutely right about that. And there are some exceptions, right? Like when House of the Dragon comes back, oh, yes, yes, we will be watching that. But you need to ask yourself, are you making Game of Thrones caliber, early Game of Thrones caliber content? Anybody can make season eight caliber content. But, you just leave your Starbucks cup in. But, you gotta ask yourself like, Is my content so good that I can disappear for a while and people will come back.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: It’s a tough sell with most things, right?

Krystal Proffitt: With most things especially, well, especially, you know, we’re talking about these really big, you know, pieces of media that have like a ravenous fan base, right? Like they have…

Joe Casabona: and huge marketing budgets.

Krystal Proffitt: Yes, yes. Like people have like literal tattoos of themselves or not of themselves of like they have got, right. Like they’ve got,

Joe Casabona: Right. Yes.

Krystal Proffitt: Dragons and all this…

Joe Casabona: dire wolves. Yeah.

Krystal Proffitt: Yes. They have all this stuff like, ’cause it’s, they love it so much. And so if someone’s listening to this and they’re like, well, don’t have that kind of fan base, like my, I’m hoping my mom and somebody else will, like, maybe a cousin or somebody that doesn’t have like my direct bloodline will listen to this whenever I launch it. So we get you like, we totally understand that we’re talking about mega, like, you know, once in a lifetime shows that have just, you know, changed media as we know it today.

But how does this all relate back to your podcast? Well, they got started, like this is the key piece. They put something out there and they kept iterating on it and making it better and making it better. But at the core of all of it was storytelling. And I don’t know Joe, if that’s like where you wanna go, but that’s really the piece that, you know, when it all comes down to it, how are you gonna get people to come back? How are you gonna get people to really engage with your content? It’s having really incredible stories because with AI coming on the scene, I’ve already started to see it. Stuff’s become pretty bland and it sounds the same. I’ve been reading these emails that I’m like, oh, this is clearly ChatGPT written.

So if you’re trying to figure out how am I gonna stand out, It’s creating that storytelling so that you can create that ravenous fan base that they don’t care how long you’re gone. They don’t care if something happens and you’re gone for six months, but if you come back, they’re gonna be just as excited to see you again.

Joe Casabona: I love that you brought that up because I am, we’re about to get into another question that we hear a lot, right? Which is, aren’t there too many podcasts? But before we answer that question, we do need to take a break for our sponsors.

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Joe Casabona: And we’re back. All right. So let’s answer this question. Krystal, why aren’t there too many podcasts? Why should I start a podcast? There’s too many.

Krystal Proffitt: This is, first of all, I get this question all the time too, Joe and I go back to, so I launched my very first podcast in 2018. 2018, there was around 500,000 podcasts. Again, and everyone’s like, what? There’s less than a million. Yes, there were less than a million podcasts in 2018. And now, I mean, depending on where you get the number from, it’s anywhere between two and 5 million that are out there. And everyone’s like, it’s so saturated. The market is too much. I can’t stand out. But then when you tell them the number of how many blogs there are, or how many YouTube channels there are, like, I don’t even know. I know it’s like in hundreds of millions, I think for possibly both of those. Like it’s an insane amount of number. And I just tell people like, no, no, no. Podcasting still gives you the ability to make that intimate connection that we were talking about earlier, but it also gives you so much freedom to do whatever you want, like to define what a podcast is by whatever standard you want.

So people will come to me and say, well, I do this livestream show all the time, but that’s just going on to YouTube. I can’t turn that into a podcast. And I say, wait, hang on one second. Why not? Why can’t, well, that’s, it’s not a pod…Like I didn’t sit down and I didn’t, I’m not in a studio like recording it. It’s not the same. And I say, you can do whatever you want. It’s a podcast or someone that says, I wanna record quick five minute notes to my audience from my phone and publish them every Monday through Friday, which I did for three years. It’s how I recorded so many episodes of a show that was called The Potty Report. And I just like, no, no, no. You can do whatever you want. It’s your podcast.

So, I wanna encourage, again, we already talked about this earlier, everyone, to have a podcast and create it in a way that makes sense for them and for their life. And once you get going, that’s when you can tweak it and say, okay, now I wanna change the audience that I’m talking to or change the topic, or, I really found that they love whenever I speak about this one specific thing or have this type of guest. But at the end of the day, we’re still in the infancy stages of podcasting which sounds wild ’cause it’s been around for a while, but there’s still so much growth opportunity out there.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. And an artist doesn’t know their style until they start painting or whatever, right? Like, Yeah. Like if your podcast is the same on Episode 200 as it was in Episode 01, now we have a problem. right?

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. Unless it’s like super working for you, right? But it’s probably not, right?

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: The main goal when you’re starting is to start in whatever way works best for you. And by the way, there are 113.4 million YouTube channels…

Krystal Proffitt: Wow!

Joe Casabona: As of December 5th, 2023 which is up 20 something percent from 2021. So, no one’s saying, are there too many YouTube channels, right? No one’s saying, are there too many books, right? New books get published daily. No one’s like, Hey, maybe we have too many of these, right? There are going to be good books and bad books, and there’s gonna be a way to differentiate any kind of content you make, right? And so, I really love what you said here about starting do what works best for you. And then you can always evolve, not especially on the internet, like nothing is set in stone, right? You’re not printing a book. It doesn’t need to be perfect and proofread and edited before it goes to print. You are creating audio files that you can evolve over time and go back and change what, like if you really want, right? If there’s one episode you hate and you wanna rerecord it, you can do that too.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah. And I think about just podcast listeners in general, you won’t find many that say, oh, I only listen to one podcast and that’s the only thing. No, are you kidding me? I listen. I’m subscribed to like 40 plus podcast at this point, and now I don’t listen to every single one of them every week or when new content comes out. But I don’t discriminate against podcasts. Like if I find a good one and it has awesome content, maybe I listen to it for a few months and it serves its purpose. Or maybe that podcaster introduces me to five other podcasts that I need to go listen to like, it’s not this crazy competitive landscape where there’s only, you know, Joe Rogan is the only one, he’s the king of podcasting and no one else can be here. The lowly peasants, you know, like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, there’s room for all of us out here.

And I have found that, you know, even in my own podcast listening, like I just, I love it. Like it give me more, give me more of all the things, whether it’s for my personal life, it’s for my business, it’s helping me become a better leader. There’s just so many different ways that you can slice, like what a podcast means for a listener, but it by no means, means that people only listen to one for sure.

Joe Casabona: Yeah, definitely. And it’s not a zero sum game, right? Like I’ll tell you, like this podcast is called How I Built It. It came out in July, 2016. In October, 2016, a podcast from NPR called How I Built This came out. And people out like, why did you change your name? Oh, were you benefiting from brand confusion? And I’m like, y’all, if people were looking for an interview with Michael Dell and they found me talking to some random WordPress Developer, they weren’t sticking around, right? You’re not walking into like a Motel six thinking it’s the Ritz-Carlton, right? Like, oh, this is definitely not where I want to be.

And so I know my show took off. Again, I started in 2016, so, less than 500,000 podcasts. I don’t know how many were around then, but it took off pretty well. So even if I was, let’s say people were finding my show looking for the NPR show, they weren’t starting it and then leaving, right? Because I saw sustained growth for a long time, which means that people liked both, or people found me and decided to stick around, right? It’s not a zero sum game. So, and I suspect if NPR thought I was stealing their audience,I I would’ve gotten a cease and desist, right?

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah. You would’ve heard something by now. I promise you that…

Joe Casabona: I would’ve heard something someone they did. They got the trademark for the name, like, before I even realized I should have done that, right? And, but it was like a year after both of us launched. And I’m like, man, I could have got this trademark. I couldn’t have, even if we applied at the same time, NPR, I think has a little bit more money than I do, but, I do think about that from time to time.

So, okay. So, that said, there are a lot of podcasts, right? There’s a lot of content. I interviewed…I had an interview last year where we talked about our competition is not other podcasters or other YouTubers. It’s literally everything, right? We are, and this is what Reed Hastings, the CEO of Netflix says and understands, right? Netflix isn’t competing with Peacock or HBO or Max or Disney Plus. They are competing with sleep, right? With anything else that takes up our time. And so, it’s the same right? At night, somebody can choose to listen to a podcast or read a book, or watch a movie or play a video game.

So how do we differentiate our podcasts from other content, and how do we make it so people wanna come back?

Krystal Proffitt: Oh, what a great question. I think the thing that I have found that works really well for me is making sure my audience feels seen and they feel heard. And maybe you’ve heard a version of that, you know, in a marketing seminar or, you know, listening to, you know, something out there in the ether. But for me, what that means is when I listen to a podcast that I’m obsessed with and I hear someone call me out by name, now I know you can’t do this for everybody, but when I hear my name, I’m like, whoop. Hang on. Like, stop me on my tracks. Hang on. I submitted to be on ask a question on the Office Ladies podcast, which was incredible. I didn’t expect this to happen.

Joe Casabona: Nice.

Krystal Proffitt: But you bet your bottom dollar. I was on my walk, my morning walk and I was going and it was like, oh, this question is from Krystal in Houston, Texas. And I was like, what just happened? What’s ha Hey God, this is ha. And my heart sped up and I mean, I was walking, I wasn’t running, so I was like, oh my God, I feel like I’m running a marathon right now. I freaked out because they were reading the question that I submitted and they answered it and they’re like, thank you so much, Krystal for your question. And I was like, I could die right now. This is amazing, because I’m such a huge office fan. It was my favorite podcast at the time. But it goes back to finding ways to engage with your audience and make them feel seen and heard. So that’s like an example on like, you know, a super level of having, you know, this giant show and being called out by name. But the way that I do this on my podcast is I will read questions that are relevant to my audience, or I say, Hey, you know, several of you have asked in our free Facebook group, or I got an email about this the other day, or, you know, I’ve seen this in the news. Let’s talk about it. Let’s break it down. I talked about Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift, and you know, an episode that I did and I was comparing it about. All of a sudden his podcast shot up, you know, to number one in Apple because of all the things that were going on publicity wise.

So, there’s ways that you could bring relevancy to your audience, but you cannot forget about them. There’s so many creators that they turn on the mic and they just wanna hear themselves talk. And I’m like, you know, you can do that without a mic. Like, you really? You don’t need a mic. Just talk to do that. You can just start talking. But don’t forget about your audience. This is the key piece. How can you bring something that really makes them feel seen and feel heard, and bring it all back down to their level and their reality that they’re living?

Joe Casabona: I love that. I wanna take one step back, right? Because I think a lot of podcasters, a lot of people, I wanna ho I wanna give our business owner, listeners the benefit of the doubt here, but I think a lot of podcasters don’t really know who their audience is. And so I think this is really important. you know, I talk about creating the mission statement, right? Or crafting your ideal listener avatar, which is terminology I stole from, I heard it from Amy Porterfield. But there’s a bunch of marketers, right? Ideal customer avatar. You can’t make your audience feel heard if you don’t know who your audience is.

Krystal Proffitt: Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm.

Joe Casabona: So how do you go about defining your audience?

Krystal Proffitt: Oh, this is so good. So a lot of people that I talk to their audience when they’re first getting started ICA and I deal with a lot of people that are online business owners, or, you know, they have, they wanna create content around something that’s relevant to their life or their business.

So typically their ICA, you know, their ideal customer avatar is a version of themselves. Maybe from six months ago, maybe from 5, 10 years ago. But they’re asking, well, what are the things I wish I would’ve known when? And that’s where they start creating content, which is fantastic. I think that, that is a great place to start. You know, people are already asking these questions and you are the subject matter expert that can give them the knowledge that they need. But once you get past that initial stage and you’re looking at your numbers and you’re like, oh, there’s consistently people hanging out here, like they’re, you know, they’re showing up every week. I keep publishing. They keep showing up. This is super cool. That’s when you need to start getting creative with how can you reach out and establish a connection with them. And if you don’t have an email list or you don’t have a free Facebook group, you don’t have a big social, because this is what people will tell me. I don’t have any of those things. I’m just getting, I have zero right now. I’m just getting started. Well, if you know people are listening to your podcast. That is how you reach them. You give them an opportunity to send you an audio clip that says, Hey, I’m taking questions and I’m gonna answer them on the show. Here’s my, you know, Speakpipe or Pod inbox. I forgot they just rebranded. Their fans… something now.

Joe Casabona: Oh, yeah. Right. That’s…

Krystal Proffitt: I don’t remember what their new name is.

Joe Casabona: That’s Sam Set’s Thing, right? Yeah.

Krystal Proffitt: That one I’m like, I cannot remember what they just rebranded to, but having a way…

Joe Casabona: Fan list.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah. Fan list. That’s what it is. That’s what it is. So shout out Pat, he does fantastic things over there, but just having the ability to capture their thoughts, you can literally give them your email address and say, this is my email address. Send me a message. I want to hear from you. And let them know the benefit. The benefit of them doing that is you answering their question. If they have a question, you’re literally gonna answer it directly to them. But also it helps them again, feel seen and feel heard.

So get creative on how you can connect with your audience. And then In the future as your audience grows, I do formal surveys. A fut like once or twice a year, while we’ll send out a Google form and say, Hey, you know, are we still, you know, meeting your expectations? What can we do better? And from there you get so many other ideas on content that you can create or how you can improve your show.

Joe Casabona: I love that. I wanna make a quick stack correction because fan list is not Sam Set’s Thing true fans, which is something that Sam Set’s just rebranded himself. So two things happened. A guy got my wires crossed. So thanks for like that, that you shouted out Pat.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: I was like, oh, Pat’s not, That’s not Sam. So anyway, quick stack correction there. I think that’s really smart, right?

Dickie Bush came on the show a while ago and said, if you don’t know what to write, write for yourself two years ago. And I think that’s really good. I think if you do find your, you have listeners, right? Get people like on your mailing list or into a Facebook group or, you know, wherever you hang out, wherever your audience hangs out which is I feel like a problem. I’m always trying to figure out like, where is my audience? So, I think that’s really smart.

And then something else that you mentioned, right? Once you know who they are, you can create content to make them feel unheard and you can tell good stories, right? And this is the thing that I’m like super bullish on. This year, you mentioned Taylor Swift. I wrote, I did an episode and wrote a long form blog post about this, about the importance of digital storytelling. And I broke down all too well the 10 minute version by Taylor Swift ’cause I think it’s a masterclass in storytelling, just like the imagery she uses and the journey she takes us on. And I think if you’re just having a raw interview, you’re gonna have a hard time differentiating your podcast from other podcasters I think at this point, people just like you, right? With YouTube.

Back in the day, you could just like, turn a camera on and talk to it, and that was like an amazing thing. And so like you could get big doing that, right?

Now, people want a little more from their content, whether it’s podcasts or YouTube, and telling a story is a really good way to stand out.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah. And I think you know, it comes back to How can you connect? It’s like I won’t listen to something. I actually, and I’m not going to name the name, I’ve been listening to a lot of audio books recently, and so, of the shout out to all the local libraries, like, go to your local library, get a library card, go download the Libby app and you can listen to free audio books. Oh my God! I’ve already devoured so many this year, but I’m like, okay. Be’cause I’m like, I listened to too many podcasts. I need to also like listen to some books, so this is what I’m doing. But I turned on one and it was, he’s a famous podcaster. He’s a bestselling author. You know, I was just like, okay, I know I’ll love this. I know that I will love this. And I started listening to it and I was like, I can’t do this. And I don’t know what exactly it was about it, but something turned me off right from the beginning of listening to his book. And I was like, well, maybe it’s just ’cause it’s an older book. I’m gonna turn on this other one. ’cause he is written multiple books and I turn on this other one. And I still could not do it. And I’m like, what is it? Why can I not listen to this? So I say all of this because it will happen, and it’s one of those things that you don’t necessarily have to figure out why people love your show or they don’t like your show.

What you have to figure out is what will keep your audience coming back. And don’t worry about the people ’cause I promise you, this guy, he’s not worried about me. He is like, oh look, someone may have started and stopped, but we don’t care. You know, right? I’m worried about these 5,000 other people that listened to my book. They gave me a fantastic review. They’re telling me the next things that I should write for them or create for them.

So there will always be like this love-hate relationships with content that’s out in the world. But at the end of the day, what I always tell people to focus on is who are the people that consistently come back? And to add in the storytelling piece, who are the people that you can connect with and give them a shout out on your show or tell their story on your podcast. Like, give them the spotlight ’cause I think that’s the beautiful thing. As content creators, we’ve been given this stage or we’ve created one and we’re able to showcase other creators in an incredible way.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. This is great. This, what you just said made me think about a book. I won’t name names. I did drop a name in the chat here in SquadCast, but I was reading his book and it was like riddled with typos. And it’s bestselling book. Real popular guy.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: And I’m just like, this is unreadable to me. Like the fact that he didn’t hire an editor makes me think that he doesn’t care about this book.

Krystal Proffitt: Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm.

Joe Casabona: But you know what? People love it. They quote it like it’s the Bible’s.

Krystal Proffitt: It’s raw.

Joe Casabona: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s a raw book. He just wanted to get the information out there. And so, I’m not his audience, right? Like I prefer the attention to detail even if some of my blog posts have typos from time to time. If there’s a typo in one of my books I like, I hate it. Because I know, like I missed it like three times and two copy editors and a tech editor also missed it, right? Because like, that’s the book writing process, but it kills me.

Now I will say, right? Something you said about allowing creators to tell their stories. I was on Krystal’s podcast, The Proffitt Podcast. I will link it in the show notes. You can find all of the show notes over at [streamlined.fm/407]. And I believe, I’m gonna say I did this because this has been my move lately, but I told a story about how I had a panic attack. Does this sound familiar? I think this is right.

Krystal Proffitt: I try to remember. I’m like, oh, tell it again. Tell it again, Joe.

Joe Casabona: but I think it’s really important here, right? Because like, I am a parent of three small children. And this was in the middle of the pandemic, and my wife is a nurse and I was trying to run a business and have a podcast and make ends meet, and also be a, basically a full-time stay at home dad, right? And so I had, it was November, 2020, my son had just been number two of three, had just been born. And, I had a 3-year-old at home as well, and I had a panic attack because it just got too stressful like everything got too stressful. And my daughter, again, three at the time, brought a towel over and a bottle of water and said, it’s gonna be okay, daddy. And I’m like, this is not okay to me.

And I tell that story in the greater context, usually when I go on podcasts is to talk about podcast automation of this was the transformational moment for me, right? And I could just say, yeah, I was spending too much time on my business and like I was working late. But that story hopefully draws more people in and makes them relate to me more especially people who have small kids, right? Who are like struggling to run their business.

And so, I will say a number of people joined my mailing list from, like, specifically from your show. They’re like, Hey, just heard you on Krystal’s podcast. You were great. So, yeah. So, that’s the power of having a good story. One that relates to your audience, and that is how you can differentiate yourself.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah. And I also want to ’cause I know that there’s some people that are like, oh dang, Joe has a good story. Krystal has a story. Like I don’t have a story. Like they start freaking out when they hear this ’cause I remember I kind of freaked out whenever I heard people saying, you know, you need to add story. ’cause they’re like, I don’t really know what quote like storytelling means. I don’t really understand what that is. And I will tell people that it could be a throwaway comment that is still a story that connects your audience.

So, one thing I always tell people, this happened two years ago. I was in the middle, this was a highly promotional episode like I’ll throw that out. Like I was selling stuff. I wasn’t just like, oh, this is whatever. Like my intention for that episode was to sell an affiliate program that I was trying to get people to sign up with me. And in that episode, I had to throw away, it was around the holidays, and I said, oh my gosh. I was just in my closet. I was, you know, speed wrapping all these, you know, gifts that I hadn’t had a chance to do. And I was watching Emily in Paris in the closet of my floor, and I was listening to podcasts. That one comment, that’s all it was a less than 32nd story of me saying one about how I’d procrastinated so long about gift wrapping and I was in the floor of my closet and I was binge watching Emily in Paris, like this was my Sunday or whatever day of the week it was. I had several people actually had this one woman reach out to me and say, “Oh my gosh! I felt so seen when you talked about gift wrapping. You’re, you know, and you were binge watching Emily in Paris”. So it doesn’t have to be this like crafted thing. It could just be these throwaway comments that help your audience relate to who you are as a person. You don’t have to give away your address and your social security number to your audience for them to feel connected with you. It’s those little pieces of how you can relate to them. You could talk about your almond milk latte that you drink every day at 1:30 PM because the caffeine addicts out here, like, we need it. Okay. We need it, and this is how we get through the day. Let’s just call it what it is. So, it could be anything like that, but talk about those pieces that will help your audience connect with you.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. This is such amazing advice. I don’t know that we’ve touched on this show before, but I get that question too, like my life is boring. How do I find good stories?

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Casabona: Brian Regan has a bit about, like the guy who walked on the moon is like the ultimate story topper, right? Like, he could be anywhere. And, I say the guy who walked on the moon, like, we don’t know who it is. but, you know, he’ll be somewhere at a party and they’ll be like, oh, you think that’s cool? I walked on the moon. You don’t need to have walked on the moon to tell a good story, right? It could be just like Krystal said, right? Like relatable almond milk, like I heard almond milk latte, and I’m like, I prefer oat milk, but almond milk’s good too, you know? Yeah. So, it’s something to like, make it seem like you’re human, right?

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: And I think that this is people here, the Joe Rogans and the Dax Shepard’s and the huge podcasters who are making so much money. And they feel like they need to get to that point to be able to relate. But there are people, couple steps behind you, right? Who you can help, who can relate to you. And that if you can illustrate that in a podcast, you’re gonna be golden.

Krystal Proffitt: A hundred percent. And I mean, I’m Dax and Monica are my people and I love them so much. I’m a huge arm cherry. I love armchair expert. But if you look at what they do, they are just unabashedly themselves. That’s at the core of why their show is so successful. It’s not a front, it’s not this huge production. I love when, you know, if you haven’t listened to the show, they’ll have guests come on and they’re like, really? Like this Is it? like there’s wires hanging out everywhere in this attic and there’s a bathroom right around the corner and there’s no door. Like,, can we real like, is that usable? Like there’s so many things, and it’s why I love it so much. It’s because it’s not this showy thing of, you know, Hey, let’s have this fancy studio and let’s, you know, throw millions of dollars at this. They’re like, let’s just turn on a mic and like get real and have real conversations.

And it’s why I’m a true fan and I know that that’s why people listen to my show, is because I’m just real. I’m raw. I make mistakes. I will call myself, I will be in the middle of making a mistake and call myself out and say, and I’m not gonna edit that out because that’s the type of show that I have. And again, everybody’s show’s gonna be different. Your expectations or your standards could be so different than mine. But at the end of the day, be yourself and your audience will find you. They will absolutely find you. And that is how you can stand out from the other podcasts that may be in your niche, in your industry.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. I love that. And I’m gonna share a story that I think I refrained from sharing on your show, but we got connected, weird to say via Amy Porterfield, right? Like she was doing a meet and greet at Craft and Comm. I don’t know her really, but you do. And this is how we got connected.

And I listened to Amy’s show religiously for a number of years. And then she had an episode that was like, how we made $10 million with a Facebook launch. And that lost me for a while ’cause I was like, I can’t relate to this even a little bit. And then like meeting her at Craft and Commerce and like, I was sitting there thinking, she doesn’t need to do this. Like, she doesn’t need to do this. And like, from what I understand, like she doesn’t feel particularly comfortable doing things like that. And that was like, remade me a fan like a bigger, obviously I went to the meet and greet ’cause I was a fan already, but that like that was a, like a real moment, right? And like that I thought that was so cool ’cause like she had no other speaker did that. I mean, Nathan Barry’s hanging around. It’s his conference. But like, you know, I didn’t see like Sahil Bloom, like, and not to call anybody out obviously, but like I didn’t see every speaker doing a meet and greet or hanging out with a bunch of people. And so I thought that was really cool. And like, things like that, that make you real, make you relatable and create those true fans.

Krystal Proffitt: A hundred percent. And I’m so glad you brought up Amy. I mean, she has had so much to do with my journey. She was actually the one that encouraged me to go all in on coaching for podcasting back in 2018. She, I had already started podcasting and it was actually, it was 2019. I had this opportunity to get a one-on-one coaching session with her. And we were talking about, I was like, I’m helping these people do their podcast, but really I have this show that’s doing this other thing. I don’t know if I should do it. And then she was like, Krystal, there’s not a lot of female leaders in this space doing this. You should absolutely do this. So I always say she lovingly pushed me off the cliff. No. And she pulled my rip cord, right? She pulled the shoot out for me.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yeah.

Krystal Proffitt: She was like, good luck. Bye. And she’s waving at the top of the hill and I’m like, wait, I didn’t…what happened? I didn’t agree to this. But you know, she does this so well in sharing pieces of her story. To your point, I think that she has crossed, I mean, she just hit a hundred million dollars in her business.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. Yeah.

Krystal Proffitt: And we’re like, bye. We don’t, we we’re still down here. We’re still, you know, doing the things. We’re totally not on the same level, but it’s really interesting to see when people fall in love with her again and again and again. It’s because she publicly makes a mistake or she does something so graceful that she’s like, oh my gosh, I totally screwed up. And she owns it and she says, this is who I am. Like that has repeatedly been her brand and I think that’s why you, why I like, we just keep following her because the story rights itself and her, you know, going on this entire journey, and I think it comes back to telling stories, being honest to your brand and who you are, and really listening to your audience and continuing to serve them and staying consistent in that original message that you start with. That’s not to say that you can’t pivot or you can’t do something else in the future, but the blend that, you know, I love that Amy has done over the years is saying, we’re gonna have email marketing, we’re gonna have online business, we’re gonna have courses and we’re gonna blend them all together. And you know, throw ’em all on a blender and see what we come out with.

And I think that you can absolutely do that with your podcast content whenever you have that connection with your audience because she knows that that’s what people need. And she knows that that’s what she can create and sell to them. And I think other podcasters can do the same.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. I agree wholeheartedly. And like, I mean, to your point, like,I guess like I should add a chapter marker here to be like, oh, we gush about Amy Porterfield for a minute. But, she’s really open about what she’s doing and what she’s working on and what she’s experimenting with.

And that is another like real thing that I love because you see other influencers who are like, here’s how to make a million dollars online. Come up with a good idea. People sell it themselves. But that was a real tweet. And I’m like, dude, you know, that’s not true. Like, you know, that’s not true. Because you have made a million dollars online and that’s not what you did. And so like, that’ just drive, they’re like, how to grow a huge, a brand new YouTube channel really fast. Number one, do this. But like, number zero is always like, be as big as I am right now, right? Yeah. Like, have millions of people who will follow you wherever you go. And, you know, I never get those vibes from Amy and like other, you know, other creators too, I think like Jay Clouse is there and Justin Moore and a couple other people like that. But, yeah, it’s like that is the kind of thing that differentiates, right? Is not trying to sound like all the other people.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah.

Joe Casabona: And being true to yourself. I love that.

We got super deep here in Act 2 of our story. So let’s move on to Act 3. I guess this is like a, this is one of those stories where I’m breaking the fourth wall. Hopefully by this point, the people who have been listening to us for nearly an hour are convinced, right? that they should have a podcast or maybe they have one and they’re just like not quite ready to launch and tell people about it.

But let’s get down to basics. How do I start a podcast? What are maybe the, you know, I’m sure we both have tons of guides on this. Let’s talk about the two or three crucial things that we need to do to start a podcast.

Krystal Proffitt: Well, I can tell you that if we’re going with two or three, none of them have to do with equipment. And people are like, oh…

Joe Casabona: Wait, what mic though?

Krystal Proffitt: Nope, nope, nope. We’re not talking about equipment. That should not be the number one concern because people will come to me and they’re like, well, I wanna start a podcast because the people in my audience and I’m calling them out. So, we’re breaking the seventh wall here like we’re hopping over to other podcasts and I’m calling my audience out ’cause I do it all the time. I’m like, I will give you some coaching, like it’s like a coaching drive by like I will give you unsolicited podcast advice, but you’re listening to my show. It is solicited. Okay.

So, here’s what I will tell them. The equipment only matters after you have a message, and after you have an audience, and you know the topic that you’re speaking about. So those would be the three things: is the message, your audience and your topic.

You know, your topic and your message could be one and the same, but at the end of the day, you have to have something that will sustain just you putting an episode out into the world. Anybody could record something one time and publish it, right? We see Tiktoks and Instagram like that’s literally what that is, right? Is you can publish one thing and just let it go and see what happens. But an actual podcast is something that you have to commit to. You have to commit and say, I will show up on the consistency, whatever you have decided, but having a topic or a message that you can speak confidently about, or maybe it’s one of those that you’re like, no, I’m actually going into this as a beginner and I’m gonna learn alongside my audience. I think that’s a beautiful way to do it too. But you have to have at least an idea of what you want to accomplish and the audience that you wanna speak to.

So, to your early question, you know, Joe, about how do I stand out and what does that look like? The thing that I see a lot of people doing is they don’t niche down enough, and they’re like, oh, I’m gonna have a real estate podcast. I always pick on realtors for whatever reason. Like, it’s notlike a harsh thing. Like I don’t, I just, y’all come to mind. It’s there. I grab it. Here we are. But you know, real estate agents are like, well, I wanna start a podcast, but I don’t know how to stand out. I’m like, what do you mean you don’t know how to stand out? Where are you selling real estate? What kind of real estate are you selling? What kind of people do you, what are the only clients that you want to work with? Don’t talk to everybody that could be buying land or renting or doing vrbo or what? Like talk to the specific commercial property people that you want to deal with whatever that specific, like get so strategic about the people that you wanna talk to.

Then later on you can decide, well, maybe I needed niche down more or niche up, but you’ve gotta find that initial audience that you wanna talk to. And then from there, that’s when you can really get going with planning and deciding, well, what you know, what are the first topics, the interviews, the questions, all, what am I gonna call it?

But at the end of the day, having your topic or your message, figure that out. Whiteboard it, get a Google Doc. Whatever you have to do, ask ChatGPT to help you make it look pretty. Whatever. But have that figured out as well as the initial audience that you wanna talk to. And so much of it will get discovered or uncovered in that process, and you’ll be able to at least have a starting point to get your podcast off the ground.

Joe Casabona: That is far and away the best advice I think you could have given here. Like it’s absolutely true. Anyone can record one thing one time. That’s so true. And like we hear constantly, right. Going viral means almost nothing, right. People who have had tweets that have gone viral or Tiktoks that have gone viral, they didn’t immediately have an influx of new clients, right? Or even new sponsorships, right? Going viral one time is not a business sustaining thing, right? If anything, it puts way more pressure on you to like recreate the magic. The thing that I did think of when you said anybody can record one thing one time is in scrubs when JD had his tape recorder and he was recording his thoughts and he just goes, I like toast. Well, they’re not all gonna be winners. And I thought, it just made me think of that.

And not niching down enough. I’m gonna tell this is a real story of this podcast, super niche in the beginning, right. I talked to WordPress Developers about their successes and failures launching a plug, essentially a plugin business, but really any WordPress related business, but WordPress Developers specifically.

And then I thought, oh, I wanna expand my audience, so I’m just gonna talk to WordPress business owners. Oh, and you know what? I’m gonna talk to business owners now. When I did that, my downloads tanked, right? I betrayed my audience. Game of Thrones season aided them. And then I had started to make a career change from WordPress into podcasting and the creator space until I was like, all right, I better start niching down again. I’m gonna talk to solopreneurs, creators and busy solopreneurs. Busy solopreneurs with small children who are really busy all the time. And you know what? My downloads went above and beyond what they were before the big crash of we’ll say 2019.

So, niching down. A lot of people will say, if I’m not, how small is too small, or how niche is too niche, right? I wanna talk to as many people as possible. You don’t, like we’ve been saying this whole time, like Krystal’s been saying this whole time, you wanna create fans. And you can’t create fans if you’re talking to everybody.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think about the shows that have, you know, tens of millions of downloads a month. Well, what will happen with them is they now have a commodity audience where they wanna buy tickets to a show or they wanna buy a T-shirt, they wanna buy swag. All of that stresses my brain out. I’m like, yeah. Ugh. Inventory. No, thank you. Josting live events, no, not in my budget right now. So it’s like all of those things I have no interest in.

But what if I served you an audience tomorrow? Maybe it was a hundred dedicated listeners, but every single one of them wanted to buy your $5,000 membership that you do every single year. Now it’s interesting. Now it’s a $500,000 business that you could have tomorrow based on a podcast. So it doesn’t matter. The size of your audience as much as how engaged is your audience, how much are you really connecting with them, If you were to throw up, Hey, you know, I’m gonna be in this one city where I know I have the most listeners of all the places where people are tuning in and I’m gonna do a meetup. How effective would that be? How cool would that be to connect with these people that have been going on this journey with you? So, I really encourage people to get away from this comparison trap of, you know, these big shows or other people in their industry, and really focus on just make the connection with your audience. Those other audiences don’t matter as much as you connecting with the people that are listening to you on a consistent basis.

Joe Casabona: I really love what you’ve been saying here.

Now, you help people with podcasting, right? Why don’t you tell us a little bit about that as we wrap up the show here.

Krystal Proffitt: Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, I would love for everybody, we’ve already been talking about, you know, podcasting was made for everyone to go check out. So I would love for you to come check out The Proffitt Podcast. Go listen to Joe’s episode first. That will be the one where you can start with all the, you know, processes and automation and all the goodies that he dropped over there. It was such an incredible episode.

But I also help people with, I have one-on-one coaching and also a program called Proffitt Podcasting. And it’s really created for, I mean, people that we’ve been talking to today that are trying to start a podcast, but I’m finding more and more, and I’d be curious to hear if this is kind of your audience too, Joe is people coming to me saying, I’ve been podcasting for a while, and I don’t think I did it right. Or I’m not seeing the growth that I thought I would, and I don’t know how to fix it, like I don’t know if it’s my messaging. I don’t know if it’s the audio. I don’t know if it’s this. I don’t know if it’s that.

So my program really focuses on helping those of you that have started a podcast, but you’re trying to figure out like what is it, like what is the piece that I need to go back? ’cause some of it is basic marketing. Sometimes it’s messaging. Sometimes it’s just the cadence of you trying to spin your wheels and you’re not happy, you don’t love it.

My goal Is for people to love their podcast, not just create it and eventually burn out. It’s to love it so much. You’re excited every time you sit down in the chair. So I would love for you to come check it out. You can go to [krystalproffitt.com/course] to check out my program.

Joe Casabona: Yes. And that’s, Krystal with a K Proffitt, P-R-O-F-F-I-T-T.

Krystal Proffitt: Yes.

Joe Casabona: So, I’ll link all of that in the show notes, including my episode over at [streamlined.fm/407]. that’s [streamlined.fm/407].

This has been fantastic. In the Pro-show, we’re gonna talk about interviewing our good stories, our bad stories, maybe a couple of tips for good interviews.

But Krystal, thanks so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it.

Krystal Proffitt: Thank you for having me. This is, I am happy to chat with you anytime. We always have so much fun. So, thank you, Joe.

Joe Casabona: Yes, agreed, and likewise.

And thank you so much for listening. Thanks to our sponsors.

Be sure again, to become a member, you can find the link over at [streamlined.fm/407], or if you’re listening in Apple podcasts, you can just hit that subscribe button, right? Right in the app. Right in the app.

But, thank you. Thank you so much. And until next time. Get out there, and build something.