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Hey, everybody.

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Welcome to a bonus episode of how I built it.

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This episode is a bonus episode because it's actually most of the replay of

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a live stream I did over on YouTube.

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I'll link it in the show notes.

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Uh, in the description for this video.

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I did clean it up a little bit.

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You know, I removed like the shout outs to commenters and things like that.

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But, uh, this is a conversation between Ronnie Bert of automatic and myself.

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On understanding AI's role in online course creation.

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Ronnie has a background in education.

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So much Southern.

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He mentioned MOOCs, which is I think cool.

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Uh, I've obviously been a long time educator across a number of mediums.

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And, uh, Ronnie is also a, the business lead, a business leader,

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automatic who oversees development of the sensei LMS plugin.

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This episode is brought to you this live stream as well

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was brought to you by sensei.

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Uh, so if you are looking for a great LMS plugin for WordPress,

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That gives you quizzes and direct integration with woo commerce and

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heavy use of the block editor.

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I there's not another plugin I can recommend.

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So check out sensei, you can get 20% off at Halle belt slash sensei.

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That's S E N S E I, but the topics that we cover managing emails for

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your online courses, AI's role in assisting with online course creation.

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Sensei's upcoming AI quiz generator.

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And a few other things around.

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Uh, AI, philosophically and what it means for the future.

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Of online course creation.

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So I hope you enjoy this conversation between me and Ronnie Bert.

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And without further ado, let's get to the intro.

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And then the interview

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Joe: Hey everybody, and welcome to How I Built It, the podcast where you get free

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coaching calls from successful creators.

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Each week you get actionable advice on how you can build a better creator

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business to increase revenue and establish yourself as an authority in your field.

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I'm your host, Joe Casabona.

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Now let's get to it.

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So, so let's get into managing emails.

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And this is, this is something that.

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I don't think enough people think about until it becomes a problem.

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So like for me, um, I had, uh, a membership site set up with, uh, I think

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it was WooCommerce memberships that would, um, automatically register new

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members in all of my Learn dash courses.

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And I was like, yeah, this is exactly what I want.

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But what I also had was, uh, an automation, um, inside of

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Learn Dash called Follow Up.

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It was like an add-on called follow up emails at the time where you

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can send emails to, uh, students based on actions they take, right?

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So when they register, when they complete after this lesson, if they haven't

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logged in for a week or whatever, right?

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So any, any of these things can kick off an email.

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And so I had one welcoming them to the course, except I had it for every course.

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And so when they got registered for every course, they got an email,

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a discreet email for every course.

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Um, I had about 10 courses on the site at the time, and I also, they

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also got their, uh, receipt and they got their welcome to the membership.

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And so their first experience was getting 12 emails by making one purchase.

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Uh, and I just never thought about it, right, because I, I

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plugged and played a few things and things work as I tested them.

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Except, you know, the secret is that my user was already

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registered for every course.

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Uh, so I just tested the payment gateway.

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So, um, let's, let's talk a little bit about this and uh, and email reminders

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and things like that, because again, I think like an online course is,

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um, you can have horror stories like mine, but you can also create a really

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good experience for the learner if you have those set up the right way.

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Ronnie: I mean, some things that come to mind is, first, I think we all think

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that there's email fatigue, right?

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I mean, email fatigue is real.

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We are inundated by most of us, probably hundreds of emails a day.

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And, um, you know, as a result we're seeing open rates on email, like

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mass marketing email list, maybe going down, um, and things like that.

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But if someone's interested in your course, or like, we do actually read a lot

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of the emails that are sent to us, right?

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And so I, I just, what I'm getting at is like, I caution people again

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saying like, well, emails don't matter because no one's gonna open them.

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Or I, I'm afraid of sending too, too many emails.

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Like if they're engaged in your.

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They're gonna wanna see that email, see what's next.

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It, it's like the best way really, that we have the best tool that we have

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of communicating directly with those people that have enrolled in real time.

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Like when, when they need some information.

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So things that we've done is, um, first of all, like, you know, I've

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been around WordPress long enough to know WordPress isn't built

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to be an email management tool.

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Right?

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And depending on when your host and the configurations there, like the

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deliverability of emails sent via WordPress can, can vary a ton, you know,

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on if you're in a shared environment, that IP might be flagged and more likely

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to end up in spam folders or just the way that the email is written more likely to

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be flagged to spam or not be received.

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We also have just recently added some pretty big integrations with Mail Poet and

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with Automate Wu, which both in different ways can help with customizing the emails.

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Mail poet works really well to help with deliver deliverability issues with email.

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Um, also, like you mentioned, you know, S M T P, depending on your host, they

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might have things in place that can help help there, but it's something to look

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into if you're relying on these emails, you know, making sure that they're

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delivered and not showing up in spam.

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And so when we are adding email tools in, we're trying to add in in ways

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that we can like, Do everything that we can to make the spam Gods happy.

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And also don't feel bad about like, um, not being able to

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keep your emails outta spam.

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I'm a big Google, like fanboy, I guess, for lack of a better word.

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Mm-hmm.

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I'm in all the Google groups and, uh, like only use Android products and everything.

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Pretty much.

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I get emails all the time from Google itself that end up in my spam folder in

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Gmail, which is like a Google service.

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So if Google can't figure out how to send me emails that don't get marked

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by spam, you know, I don't feel so bad.

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It's, it's a complex issue, but,

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Joe: um, yeah.

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That's such, that's such a good point, right.

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It's it's worth looking into though.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Awesome.

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And you mentioned male poet.

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Male poet came into the automatic fold a couple years ago, I think.

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Right.

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Ronnie: Yeah, I don't remember exactly when.

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And it also, you know, is, uh, works really closely with, with

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WooCommerce and automating all your store purchases and stuff there, and

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just making those, those look better.

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Um, so what we've done is now you can, um, you automatically get a mail poet

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list for everyone that's in a course or that's in a sensei group mm-hmm.

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So that you can send out mass emails or you can use some of their

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automation tools, like, uh, I mean, just a whole bunch of different

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possibilities that it opens up.

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You can send an email based on if they purchased a specific product in the

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past or something like that to a course.

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Yeah.

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You, you can get pretty creative.

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Joe: That's, that's awesome.

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And I mean, that makes perfect sense, right?

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Because I think, again, one of the things that, you know, I mean, I've been in

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the WordPress space since like 2004.

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So like before WordPress had pages, like, it was ju it was literally just a blog

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when I first started using WordPress.

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Um, and you know, and, and, and the people in the WordPress space and,

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and developers and agencies, like they would do this piece mill thing.

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But I think especially moving into the creator economy, which is who I'm talking

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to mostly now, um, they're not hiring an agency to set up their online store.

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Right.

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And they're not, and so these are integrations that

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they need to think about.

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And I mean, to woo commerce's credit, especially like the

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onboarding process is really good.

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I think it's really good, at least, um, someone who's used a lot of WordPress

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plugins and most are just like, if there's nothing when you install the

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plugin, I either think like, well, there's nothing to do with just

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doing its thing, or like, now I've gotta hunt down the settings page.

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But like WooCommerce I think does a really good job of like putting

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things front and center and, and like, you know, you probably need

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this like tax calculation, whatever.

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Um, and so, Having tools that integrate like that are, um, I think super

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important and male poet, full disclosure, they years ago sponsored my podcast.

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Um, but uh, you know, I think they were, they're doing a really good job of that.

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Ronnie: Yeah.

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And I think it's this connection piece of getting all these tools,

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like we want to play nicely with, with everything we can, with membership

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plugins, with other mail services besides mail poet and all that too.

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Cuz that's the beauty of the ecosystem that we're in is that, you know,

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you get to choose what you need and what works for you at that time

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and not pigeonholed into one thing.

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Joe: Yeah, absolutely.

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You get to, you get to choose your service.

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Um, so let's, uh, let's move into the, the main event here, right?

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There's, uh, you know, enough dilly dialing.

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Um, let's talk about ai.

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Let's talk about AI a little bit.

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First from like a, a philosophical standpoint, right?

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And then we'll get into kind of the practical applications of course creation.

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Uh, you know, thinking about it for a couple minutes, I think

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probably what I use it for in podcasting is very similar to how

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it could be used in course creation.

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But I'm really curious to hear what, what you have to say about that.

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But again, um, what is your personal philosophy?

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I mean, that, that's

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Ronnie: kinda why I reached out to you, because this is why I'm developing

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it, and that's like the first thing off the bat, I have done nothing

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but listened to dozens and dozens of podcasts from experts on this right?

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Over the last couple of months.

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And I, I don't, um, I mean, none of us are experts because this doesn't exist yet.

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We don't really know what the potential is gonna be.

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We don't really know, you know, where this is ending up.

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But I have to say what I want instead of a philosophy, what I hope we get out of

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this is, I don't want us to get to a place where the robots, the AI, is writing our

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entire course for us, writing an entire blog post for us, and we just blindly

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like hit, publish and run students through that course or something like that.

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I think I've already seen, we have people doing that.

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They're like, oh, I can go create 10 courses this weekend, copy

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paste it in, sell it, and you know, try to make a quick buck.

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Um, you know, the downside of that is, well, first of all, AI is still sometimes

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giving you, you know, bad information.

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Um, it's hallucinating.

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It's, you know, telling you things that are not necessarily true.

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So we first, you know, we need to be mindful of that, but that's

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not gonna be an engaging course.

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I, I, I think a lot about course creators and I believe a million percent that like,

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Putting people through courses, you know, having a bunch of courses available for

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people to sign up for, learn on their own pace, at their own time, things

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they're excited about and interesting in like, that's not going anywhere.

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It's a good industry to be in.

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It's, it's really a needed thing for the world really.

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And, but if we have a whole bunch of really bad, low quality courses out

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there, and that's someone's first experience as a student mm-hmm.

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Like, they're way less likely to ever go try again.

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And, um, I think we saw that with MOOCs like 10 years ago.

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The massive online open courses or whatever they were called.

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Right.

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The universities were rolling out left and right.

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They were not good learning experiences for the most part because they were thrown

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together quickly and they just tried to like convert a textbook into the course.

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Millions of people signed up for these things.

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The completion rate was like sometimes like 1% or something.

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Right.

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Like really low.

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No one signed up for 'em, A second one.

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Right.

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Cuz they didn't have a great first experience.

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Joe: Yeah.

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And gosh, that's such, that's such a throwback that we, we

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talked about that when I worked in higher ed like two years ago.

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Yeah.

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Um, first of all, I'm a New York Italian and MOOC is like a derogatory term.

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The first time I heard the VP of IT at the University of Scranton, St.

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Moo, I was like, Hey, who are you talking to Over, like, I just got very like, um,

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can he say, is he allowed to say that?

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But, uh, I mean, to our credit, like we never like rushed to roll out one.

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Right?

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Like we really, and like by the time, well, I left before this, but like again,

00:13:39.364 –> 00:13:44.639

by the time we were kinda like ready, we kind of saw the, the pitfalls of it.

00:13:44.639 –> 00:13:44.939

Right.

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Um, because like, if you're gonna just.

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Throw.

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Like if I wanna learn something short, I can go read an academic paper on it.

00:13:55.229 –> 00:13:57.569

But like you said, it's gonna be an awful experience.

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Like I'm, when I have questions, it's gonna be so boring.

00:14:01.829 –> 00:14:05.129

Um, and that's almost like what I think about when I think

00:14:05.129 –> 00:14:06.869

of like AI generated courses.

00:14:07.409 –> 00:14:10.079

You're basically just saying like, take all of this information

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and spit it out on a page.

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Put it into lessons you think it should be in.

00:14:17.069 –> 00:14:19.289

Right, which is not thinking about the learning experience.

00:14:19.769 –> 00:14:20.009

No.

00:14:20.159 –> 00:14:25.199

Um, because like AI can't possibly know that, like how each individual will learn.

00:14:26.059 –> 00:14:28.619

And so, you know, that's, that's kind of what I thought about

00:14:28.624 –> 00:14:29.549

as you were talking there.

00:14:29.579 –> 00:14:30.989

But I'm sorry, I like I interrupted your

00:14:30.989 –> 00:14:31.379

Ronnie: philosophy.

00:14:31.379 –> 00:14:32.339

No, I like that.

00:14:32.399 –> 00:14:33.209

Yeah, I like that.

00:14:33.209 –> 00:14:40.019

And what, so where I hope we're going is that, well on a couple of fronts,

00:14:41.819 –> 00:14:46.379

you can now like have some of that boring stuff though, that research.

00:14:47.699 –> 00:14:50.879

Like writing the textbook for you almost, right?

00:14:50.879 –> 00:14:50.969

Mm-hmm.

00:14:51.464 –> 00:14:56.429

Now, your job as the course creator is to put all of that extra stuff, the extra

00:14:56.434 –> 00:15:00.989

elements into the course that make it interactive, make it engaging, building a

00:15:00.989 –> 00:15:06.149

community around the course, possibly, you know, adding some collaborative elements,

00:15:06.509 –> 00:15:10.949

one-on-one coaching with the instructor, or group coaching with the instructor.

00:15:11.249 –> 00:15:14.399

Those sorts of things are gonna be really what set courses apart.

00:15:14.639 –> 00:15:19.709

So this idea of like evergreen courses that are text based and

00:15:19.709 –> 00:15:23.639

like hands off automated, I think we're gonna have a handful of people

00:15:23.639 –> 00:15:26.879

maybe in, in certain niches, like be somewhat successful with that.

00:15:26.879 –> 00:15:33.719

But by and large, like the real value from this is gonna be if we can help

00:15:33.719 –> 00:15:38.699

put tools in the hands of creators that, that go way above and beyond that, right?

00:15:38.699 –> 00:15:40.049

And make that accessible.

00:15:40.739 –> 00:15:45.239

Um, So AI can help us build the foundation, which we can talk more about

00:15:45.239 –> 00:15:47.189

like specifics and prompts and all that.

00:15:47.189 –> 00:15:49.829

But, um, I don't know.

00:15:49.829 –> 00:15:51.419

I mean, what do you think about, about that?

00:15:51.419 –> 00:15:54.869

I, I'm developing this like, you know, in real time, constantly

00:15:54.869 –> 00:15:56.129

evolving in my thoughts,

00:15:56.134 –> 00:15:56.429

Joe: so, right.

00:15:56.429 –> 00:16:01.079

Well cuz I mean, it's like, I mean, this is maybe recency effect, but I

00:16:01.079 –> 00:16:02.939

can't think of another technology.

00:16:03.539 –> 00:16:08.729

And again, I've been in technology for over 20 years at this point.

00:16:09.509 –> 00:16:14.879

Um, you know, and I can't think of something that evolved as rapidly

00:16:14.999 –> 00:16:16.679

as like generative AI tools.

00:16:17.069 –> 00:16:22.199

Um, and so like, I've talked about it a little bit on, on the podcast and

00:16:22.199 –> 00:16:24.719

like, I had to like, put a disclaimer like, hey, we were talking about this in

00:16:24.719 –> 00:16:28.469

January and it's like March now, and it things, everything's totally different.

00:16:28.474 –> 00:16:34.769

All and so, um, you know, and so like it's, it is that constant evaluation.

00:16:34.799 –> 00:16:39.299

The other thing I think, again, as you were talking, what made me.

00:16:39.854 –> 00:16:45.464

What, where my brain went was the idea of the flipped classroom, right?

00:16:45.464 –> 00:16:48.494

So like anybody who's unfamiliar with the idea of the flipped classroom,

00:16:49.184 –> 00:16:55.874

it was that, um, the student would essentially like read the lectures at

00:16:55.874 –> 00:16:59.444

home and then do the assignments in class.

00:16:59.614 –> 00:17:02.774

And when I first heard about this, I was like, oh, this is brilliant, right?

00:17:02.774 –> 00:17:04.754

Like, this is, this makes so much sense.

00:17:05.144 –> 00:17:08.984

You read the material and then like you work through the comprehension

00:17:08.989 –> 00:17:10.964

with your fellow students and teacher.

00:17:10.964 –> 00:17:15.944

But, but then I actually started talking to my students about, uh, those, like who

00:17:15.944 –> 00:17:17.384

had experience with the flipped classroom.

00:17:17.384 –> 00:17:20.894

They're like, oh, they would just make us like watch YouTube videos.

00:17:21.104 –> 00:17:24.194

And I'm like, that's not okay.

00:17:24.464 –> 00:17:28.454

Y that's not a learning experience, right?

00:17:28.574 –> 00:17:34.354

Again, all of this information is out there and, and I, part of the educator's

00:17:34.359 –> 00:17:38.205

job is to curate and filter it.

00:17:39.259 –> 00:17:45.044

Um, and put it into a lens that works best for the people you're talking to and not

00:17:45.044 –> 00:17:46.514

just throw a bunch of information at them.

00:17:46.514 –> 00:17:50.444

And so like, totally AI tools can help us do that, right?

00:17:50.624 –> 00:17:54.914

You can write a prompt for chat, G p t, that's like, uh, I wanna teach

00:17:55.184 –> 00:18:01.184

a group of 10 year olds, uh, how to make their first HTML page, um, right.

00:18:01.184 –> 00:18:05.294

As an expert web developer talking to a group of 10 year olds.

00:18:06.014 –> 00:18:09.944

Um, and like, yeah, maybe you'd get something, but like, maybe

00:18:09.944 –> 00:18:14.594

not, you know, or like, certainly they're gonna have questions.

00:18:15.104 –> 00:18:21.344

Um, certainly they're gonna have questions that AI can't possibly anticipate.

00:18:21.344 –> 00:18:26.474

And so, um, I think that it's a very good assistive tool.

00:18:27.254 –> 00:18:28.754

It's a good research tool.

00:18:28.814 –> 00:18:34.334

I remember when like Wikipedia was first emerging and every teacher wanted

00:18:34.334 –> 00:18:37.724

to ban that because it wasn't a good research tool, but like you had to.

00:18:38.939 –> 00:18:39.989

It's a good first.

00:18:40.019 –> 00:18:44.129

I think it's a good first step, but it's not gonna give you your first

00:18:44.129 –> 00:18:45.659

draft or your final draft, rather.

00:18:46.499 –> 00:18:46.799

Right.

00:18:47.129 –> 00:18:49.079

It's, it's gonna give you some prompts.

00:18:49.079 –> 00:18:52.889

It's gonna give you some prompts to then go and look for more information.

00:18:55.019 –> 00:18:55.229

Ronnie: Yeah.

00:18:55.229 –> 00:18:59.369

And look for like, how to make it relevant, how to tell stories that

00:18:59.369 –> 00:19:03.059

are personal to you as the educator, or maybe that connect specifically

00:19:03.064 –> 00:19:04.469

with the, with the learner.

00:19:04.979 –> 00:19:09.329

Um, then you, you're gonna wanna, I mean, to me, my, my whole

00:19:09.329 –> 00:19:12.959

like education philosophy is learning is doing, not getting.

00:19:12.959 –> 00:19:13.049

Mm-hmm.

00:19:13.289 –> 00:19:13.469

Right.

00:19:13.469 –> 00:19:13.589

Yeah.

00:19:13.589 –> 00:19:19.289

And so, um, you know, will have to build ways into the courses to

00:19:19.289 –> 00:19:23.669

have the students do something that demonstrates that they've explored

00:19:23.669 –> 00:19:27.659

that new content to whatever it is, or, or played around with it, or

00:19:27.659 –> 00:19:29.579

created something or built something.

00:19:30.209 –> 00:19:34.379

Um, or maybe it's in a traditional sense, a quiz or something like that.

00:19:34.409 –> 00:19:39.374

But, Um, you know, that's really what makes the course, the course

00:19:39.404 –> 00:19:40.964

or those, those experiences.

00:19:41.474 –> 00:19:45.854

And so, you know, anyone that might be listening that is creating learning

00:19:45.859 –> 00:19:52.344

experiences, like always be thinking about, um, what can you have the, the

00:19:52.349 –> 00:19:54.584

student do well, AI's not giving you that.

00:19:54.584 –> 00:19:57.794

Maybe you could ask what could the student do to demonstrate that they've done this

00:19:57.794 –> 00:19:59.384

or, and I've tried that a little bit.

00:19:59.384 –> 00:20:03.344

Like, what's an activity that I could do when I want to teach this concept?

00:20:03.344 –> 00:20:06.074

And it, depending on what it is, it gives some decent ideas

00:20:06.074 –> 00:20:07.334

that can get you unstuck.

00:20:07.874 –> 00:20:11.264

Um, but then, you know, like how much time you have, what resources

00:20:11.264 –> 00:20:13.784

are available, all that, that you would have to then tailor it

00:20:14.354 –> 00:20:16.244

and, and put it into your course.

00:20:16.244 –> 00:20:20.114

But the course shouldn't be about the content because as

00:20:20.114 –> 00:20:21.644

of now, the content is trivial.

00:20:21.644 –> 00:20:22.334

It's everywhere.

00:20:22.394 –> 00:20:24.014

Like your content's not unique.

00:20:24.024 –> 00:20:24.624

Mm-hmm.

00:20:24.704 –> 00:20:26.534

The actual words on the page are not unique.

00:20:26.954 –> 00:20:30.779

Um, So it's gotta be the experiences that are, that are the

00:20:30.779 –> 00:20:31.559

Joe: uniqueness.

00:20:31.859 –> 00:20:32.819

Yeah, I like that.

00:20:32.819 –> 00:20:36.629

I, I always say learn by doing, uh, by doing as well.

00:20:36.689 –> 00:20:40.439

Um, I, you know, I want my courses, I want people to have tangible

00:20:40.439 –> 00:20:42.119

experiences after they take my courses.

00:20:42.119 –> 00:20:45.269

I want them to walk away from my course and have something

00:20:46.049 –> 00:20:47.369

virtually in their hands, right?

00:20:47.369 –> 00:20:51.059

Cuz I'm usually teaching people how to do things online, but like, Hey,

00:20:51.059 –> 00:20:52.679

I took this course and I made that.

00:20:52.989 –> 00:20:55.809

The average student retention rates, when they learn something,

00:20:55.809 –> 00:20:58.629

it's like lecture reading is 10%.

00:20:59.199 –> 00:21:03.399

Um, and then practice doing is up to 75, right?

00:21:03.399 –> 00:21:05.079

And like 90% is teaching others.

00:21:05.084 –> 00:21:10.239

But, um, if you are, if, if you are just giving to Ronnie's point, right?

00:21:10.239 –> 00:21:14.799

If you're just giving people something to read, uh, as their course,

00:21:14.829 –> 00:21:16.119

they're not gonna retain that.

00:21:16.119 –> 00:21:17.349

They're not gonna remember that.

00:21:17.799 –> 00:21:21.729

Um, you probably, I mean, if you're watching on the livestream now, if

00:21:21.729 –> 00:21:25.149

you're listening, maybe you don't even remember what I just said, right?

00:21:25.179 –> 00:21:29.529

Um, but like practical doing is gonna give you a 75% retention

00:21:29.529 –> 00:21:31.419

rate because you're at your, your.

00:21:32.349 –> 00:21:37.989

Forging new memories of, of, you know, like for forming new pathways

00:21:37.989 –> 00:21:40.869

for like actually doing the thing.

00:21:40.869 –> 00:21:41.199

Right.

00:21:41.269 –> 00:21:45.099

That, and that was probably the idea of the flipped classroom, right?

00:21:45.579 –> 00:21:46.149

In theory it was,

00:21:46.154 –> 00:21:49.389

Ronnie: and, and I, I don't have it in front of me and it's been a while.

00:21:49.394 –> 00:21:54.159

And I think it depends on the topic, you know, the content, the age of the

00:21:54.159 –> 00:21:57.069

learners, but I think there was some research that showed, especially younger

00:21:57.069 –> 00:21:59.169

kids, where a lot of this was used mm-hmm.

00:21:59.254 –> 00:22:02.499

That actually didn't show gains in instruc, like in out

00:22:02.529 –> 00:22:04.299

educational outcomes in many ways.

00:22:04.719 –> 00:22:06.519

And that kind of surprised a whole bunch of people.

00:22:06.519 –> 00:22:07.059

Yeah.

00:22:07.059 –> 00:22:12.489

Um, but, you know, other ways to incorporate that, doing into your

00:22:12.494 –> 00:22:16.959

course, having forums like BB press forums or comments, um, threaded

00:22:16.959 –> 00:22:23.739

discussions having, uh, peer review of, of work, um, building that collaboration

00:22:23.744 –> 00:22:28.494

and, um, You know, there's all sorts of tools that, that we could add.

00:22:28.494 –> 00:22:30.204

And AI is not going to generate that.

00:22:30.204 –> 00:22:34.074

Now, you should expect today that your students are probably gonna

00:22:34.074 –> 00:22:36.004

be using chat g p t to mm-hmm.

00:22:36.089 –> 00:22:39.894

Like, answer those discussion questions or whatever, but you know, that's kind of

00:22:39.894 –> 00:22:44.304

on them and that's a skill we're all gonna learn how to, how to figure out, you know?

00:22:44.364 –> 00:22:44.544

Yeah.

00:22:44.634 –> 00:22:45.594

What that really means for

00:22:45.594 –> 00:22:45.894

Joe: us.

00:22:46.164 –> 00:22:47.094

I will say, right?

00:22:47.094 –> 00:22:48.444

You asked me about my philosophy.

00:22:48.444 –> 00:22:53.814

I did write a blog post a couple weeks ago, um, called like, chat.

00:22:53.814 –> 00:22:58.224

G P T is, ex, ex is exposing like a weakness in our education

00:22:58.224 –> 00:22:59.304

system or something like that.

00:22:59.754 –> 00:23:07.494

Um, where I basically talked about how, uh, is exposing our

00:23:07.494 –> 00:23:09.174

broken education system, right?

00:23:09.179 –> 00:23:12.684

Because if te my theory, right?

00:23:12.684 –> 00:23:15.654

And I think based on what you've said, you might agree with this.

00:23:15.654 –> 00:23:20.424

I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but, um, if teachers are banning chat, g p

00:23:20.424 –> 00:23:25.089

t from, uh, from the classroom wholesale, first of all, You're now depriving

00:23:25.089 –> 00:23:28.479

students of a skill that they are going to need when they get into the workforce.

00:23:28.539 –> 00:23:31.359

Like you're going to need to know how to leverage generative ai.

00:23:31.869 –> 00:23:40.539

Um, but also, um, but also that means you're just giving assignments that

00:23:40.539 –> 00:23:42.609

are regurgitation assignments, right?

00:23:42.999 –> 00:23:49.149

Like if you tell me to write, uh, a paper about like the Battle of Shiloh, right?

00:23:49.569 –> 00:23:53.709

Uh, and chat G p t can write that paper and it covers everything

00:23:53.709 –> 00:23:55.119

that you told me I had to do.

00:23:55.899 –> 00:23:59.289

That's not a problem with chat G P T, that's a problem with the assignment.

00:23:59.349 –> 00:24:01.779

Like you're just making me memorize and regurgitate, right.

00:24:02.319 –> 00:24:07.629

Um, instead of like critically think right about the Battle of Shiloh or whatever.

00:24:08.649 –> 00:24:09.759

Ronnie: I completely agree.

00:24:10.149 –> 00:24:16.779

Um, and, you know, for course creators and some, you know, we work with

00:24:16.779 –> 00:24:20.229

people of all different types of courses that they're creating, right?

00:24:20.229 –> 00:24:24.339

There's some that are for like, certifications and you have like strict,

00:24:24.939 –> 00:24:30.729

um, either legal obligations or like some something that you have to make sure that

00:24:30.729 –> 00:24:33.069

they know and that are taught is covered.

00:24:33.129 –> 00:24:37.329

And then you have much more fun, um, you know, hobbies and things

00:24:37.329 –> 00:24:40.599

like that, that people that we, you know, all sorts of stuff.

00:24:40.599 –> 00:24:43.359

And then everything in between.

00:24:43.569 –> 00:24:46.179

It depends on your course, it depends on the topic, but you

00:24:46.179 –> 00:24:49.269

can, you definitely wanna bring in community some way and mm-hmm.

00:24:49.349 –> 00:24:55.089

And the option for that, um, however you can, even if that community is external

00:24:55.094 –> 00:24:58.269

to the course that you're just opening the door to or something like that.

00:24:59.409 –> 00:25:00.549

Joe: Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:00.609 –> 00:25:03.819

And now that we've gotten that out of the way, right, um,

00:25:04.689 –> 00:25:07.989

uh, AI tools can be helpful.

00:25:08.079 –> 00:25:14.139

Um, and I think something that, um, we're teed up to talk about is something that

00:25:14.889 –> 00:25:17.529

I always, always struggle with, right?

00:25:17.529 –> 00:25:22.119

I make courses for LinkedIn learning, um, and if I'm not doing, like, if

00:25:22.119 –> 00:25:23.649

I'm not doing a coding course, right?

00:25:23.649 –> 00:25:27.909

Where like the, the doing part, the assessment part is obvious.

00:25:27.909 –> 00:25:30.639

It's like, take this code, write this code, right?

00:25:30.699 –> 00:25:34.359

Usually I'll like say, oh, right, well, I'm gonna, let's write this code, pause

00:25:34.359 –> 00:25:37.209

this video here, try to do it yourself, and then we'll walk through my solution.

00:25:37.869 –> 00:25:44.649

Um, if it's not that, then they want me to write quiz questions and I hate.

00:25:45.669 –> 00:25:50.079

Hate writing quick because like, they're so to me, they're like so

00:25:50.079 –> 00:25:52.029

contrived the way I write them.

00:25:52.029 –> 00:25:52.929

I'm really bad at writing.

00:25:52.929 –> 00:25:54.369

I just say that right off the bat.

00:25:54.369 –> 00:25:54.609

Right.

00:25:55.029 –> 00:25:56.589

It's always like four.

00:25:57.099 –> 00:25:59.079

One is I think the obvious answer.

00:25:59.079 –> 00:26:01.929

One is a very, obviously not the answer.

00:26:01.989 –> 00:26:04.029

It's like, just totally at a left field.

00:26:04.569 –> 00:26:10.089

Um, and then, but it's like, it's something I spend, I think, a, um,

00:26:10.659 –> 00:26:14.499

inequitable amount of time on when it comes to creating the course.

00:26:14.679 –> 00:26:17.859

Um, but it sounds like Sensei is about to integrate something

00:26:17.859 –> 00:26:19.719

that could, could maybe help me.

00:26:20.649 –> 00:26:20.799

Yeah.

00:26:20.804 –> 00:26:21.909

This is our first,

00:26:21.909 –> 00:26:23.499

Ronnie: our first tool that we're building in.

00:26:23.499 –> 00:26:31.149

And so what we wanted to avoid, um, was not having this like chat interface that

00:26:31.154 –> 00:26:33.239

you have everywhere else with mm-hmm.

00:26:33.324 –> 00:26:34.179

With AI tools.

00:26:34.509 –> 00:26:37.389

We just kind of want it to be magic wherever we can.

00:26:37.899 –> 00:26:41.709

And so you already have a lesson in Sensei and the lesson has content.

00:26:42.579 –> 00:26:45.969

Then you can click a button to create a quiz.

00:26:45.969 –> 00:26:46.809

I mean, that's how it works.

00:26:46.809 –> 00:26:50.499

Now, when you do that, we'll ask, well, do you want us to generate

00:26:50.499 –> 00:26:51.879

a few quiz questions for you?

00:26:52.689 –> 00:26:56.379

And we did a lot of testing and we found that like chat, G p T

00:26:56.384 –> 00:26:58.389

usually writes three good questions.

00:26:58.389 –> 00:27:00.759

If you ask for more than three, they get really repetitive.

00:27:00.939 –> 00:27:01.029

Mm-hmm.

00:27:01.359 –> 00:27:06.099

Um, and so we were just showing three quiz questions and they, for

00:27:06.099 –> 00:27:08.049

now, the, they're multiple choice.

00:27:08.054 –> 00:27:12.639

But what I like about it is when we can take it a step further, we

00:27:12.639 –> 00:27:18.549

then ask to, well also display why the right answer is correct and why

00:27:18.579 –> 00:27:20.859

each wrong answer is not correct.

00:27:20.859 –> 00:27:22.569

Like, why is that the wrong answer?

00:27:23.139 –> 00:27:27.969

And then we, so when the learner is taking the quiz and they choose the

00:27:27.969 –> 00:27:33.189

wrong answer, they'll immediately get the feedback that, you know, this

00:27:33.189 –> 00:27:36.009

is why this is the wrong answer, and here's the right answer and here's why.

00:27:36.009 –> 00:27:39.189

So it's like reinforcing right in real time and.

00:27:40.104 –> 00:27:43.554

You know, we could do that when we're building the course, but like you

00:27:43.554 –> 00:27:44.964

said, it's pretty time consuming.

00:27:44.964 –> 00:27:46.464

It's also a little challenging.

00:27:47.004 –> 00:27:51.564

Um, and I think once you, I've been playing with these a bunch, like,

00:27:51.654 –> 00:27:57.174

it kind of helps train the course creator too, like on writing better

00:27:57.179 –> 00:27:58.764

quizzes and writing better feedback.

00:27:58.764 –> 00:28:01.524

So then you can extend and write a fourth and a fifth.

00:28:01.524 –> 00:28:03.864

And we don't want you to just use the quiz questions exactly

00:28:03.864 –> 00:28:04.944

as they come out of the box.

00:28:04.944 –> 00:28:07.404

Like we're hoping you're reviewing them and making sure that it's

00:28:07.944 –> 00:28:10.524

a good question and like it's the right answer and all that.

00:28:10.529 –> 00:28:15.774

But, um, that's just like one way of starting and it's, you don't have

00:28:15.774 –> 00:28:17.244

to worry about writing a prompt.

00:28:17.274 –> 00:28:21.354

We've we're customizing those prompts for you all in the background and

00:28:21.354 –> 00:28:23.574

then putting it into the blocks.

00:28:24.264 –> 00:28:26.274

So no copy pasting or anything like that.

00:28:26.279 –> 00:28:29.454

It transforms it into Gutenberg and into the quiz editor.

00:28:30.264 –> 00:28:30.894

Ah, that's awesome.

00:28:30.894 –> 00:28:31.344

Joe: Which is pretty cool.

00:28:31.764 –> 00:28:32.064

Yeah.

00:28:32.064 –> 00:28:32.664

That's awesome.

00:28:32.664 –> 00:28:34.974

And like the, why is it, right, why is it wrong?

00:28:34.974 –> 00:28:36.984

Like, that's another thing that I really struggle with.

00:28:36.984 –> 00:28:39.474

I'm just like, The right.

00:28:39.474 –> 00:28:43.224

I like, I feel like when I say, when I write y, is this the right answer?

00:28:44.064 –> 00:28:45.504

I can also put that in the Y.

00:28:45.504 –> 00:28:46.854

Is this the wrong answer, right?

00:28:46.854 –> 00:28:47.994

Like yeah, like yeah.

00:28:48.054 –> 00:28:49.434

Why is a the right answer there?

00:28:49.464 –> 00:28:50.934

The A is the right answer for these reasons.

00:28:50.934 –> 00:28:54.414

Why is B the wrong answer for the reasons that A is the right answer?

00:28:54.924 –> 00:28:57.234

But that's like not really helpful, right?

00:28:57.234 –> 00:28:57.564

It's like,

00:28:57.564 –> 00:29:00.114

Ronnie: and it's, and you wanna just kind of cut, be and paste what you've

00:29:00.114 –> 00:29:02.424

already written cuz you already wrote the right answer, you know,

00:29:02.424 –> 00:29:03.834

up above or whatever in the text.

00:29:04.044 –> 00:29:06.804

But chat g p t does a pretty good job of like writing it in a slightly

00:29:06.804 –> 00:29:10.374

different way that might connect with them a little bit better or something

00:29:10.374 –> 00:29:12.144

like that and not feel super repetitive.

00:29:12.144 –> 00:29:15.834

So, um, you know, that's just the first thing we're playing with.

00:29:16.374 –> 00:29:24.789

Um, right after that it's getting to creating, we found, Just creating

00:29:24.789 –> 00:29:28.119

the course outline, which you can already go to chat G p T or

00:29:28.119 –> 00:29:30.069

I've been using Bard a lot too.

00:29:30.639 –> 00:29:30.909

Nice.

00:29:31.059 –> 00:29:32.439

I think that G Google Chat.

00:29:32.439 –> 00:29:33.879

Joe: G p t Google established

00:29:33.879 –> 00:29:34.209

Ronnie: earlier.

00:29:34.214 –> 00:29:34.449

Yeah.

00:29:34.929 –> 00:29:35.169

Yeah.

00:29:35.529 –> 00:29:36.999

Um, yes.

00:29:37.089 –> 00:29:42.999

And so, um, you know, you can already ask it for a course outline based

00:29:43.004 –> 00:29:44.109

on the course topic and all that.

00:29:44.109 –> 00:29:47.829

But what we're doing is you have to put a course title in

00:29:47.829 –> 00:29:48.939

when you create a new course.

00:29:48.999 –> 00:29:52.959

And we ask you right after that what like the objectives are of the course.

00:29:53.169 –> 00:29:53.289

Mm-hmm.

00:29:53.529 –> 00:29:56.439

Well now we already have all the information we need to

00:29:56.829 –> 00:29:58.029

write the prompts for you.

00:29:58.479 –> 00:29:58.629

Yeah.

00:29:58.659 –> 00:30:04.419

Um, so then we can generate a, an outline and say, do you like this?

00:30:04.479 –> 00:30:06.129

You can just start blank if you want.

00:30:06.129 –> 00:30:09.279

Like, you're not forced to use it, but if you choose to use it, you can easily

00:30:09.279 –> 00:30:12.579

customize it, edit it, but hopefully, you know, the goal is to get people

00:30:12.584 –> 00:30:14.289

to publish their first course faster.

00:30:14.289 –> 00:30:16.179

That's like the metric we're trying to improve.

00:30:16.179 –> 00:30:16.239

Yeah.

00:30:16.269 –> 00:30:20.174

Cuz we're a business, you know, we have to be, um, And,

00:30:20.194 –> 00:30:23.424

Joe: but I mean also like starting a course is like the hardest part, right?

00:30:23.484 –> 00:30:26.304

I mean, to me it's some people, they're like people who have a hard

00:30:26.304 –> 00:30:29.334

time starting and a, uh, some people who have time, like getting a hard

00:30:29.334 –> 00:30:30.354

time getting over the finish line.

00:30:30.834 –> 00:30:33.144

I am hun a hundred percent in the starting.

00:30:33.804 –> 00:30:34.074

Yeah.

00:30:34.164 –> 00:30:36.144

I will stare at a problem for like a week and be like, yeah,

00:30:36.144 –> 00:30:37.164

I really gotta start this.

00:30:37.284 –> 00:30:41.994

But like, again, generative AI has been, that made that a little bit easier, right?

00:30:41.994 –> 00:30:45.954

And like getting an outline, at least like you said, gets the ideas

00:30:45.954 –> 00:30:47.754

flowing and that's like super helpful.

00:30:47.754 –> 00:30:50.934

And so, yes, like you're a business, you want people to make more courses

00:30:50.939 –> 00:30:56.214

obviously, but like that is also extremely beneficial to the course

00:30:56.214 –> 00:30:59.634

creator who probably wants to get the course done as soon as possible.

00:30:59.634 –> 00:30:59.724

Oh yeah.

00:30:59.724 –> 00:31:00.714

So they can start selling it,

00:31:00.714 –> 00:31:00.984

Ronnie: right?

00:31:01.434 –> 00:31:05.094

No, we want, I mean we want, we wanna make tools that makes their

00:31:05.094 –> 00:31:07.554

lives easier and better and a better end result of the course.

00:31:07.554 –> 00:31:10.974

And everything like that helps 'em learn how to use the our tool as well,

00:31:10.974 –> 00:31:13.254

because that is kind of the hardest.

00:31:14.454 –> 00:31:17.604

Piece is that very beginning, just getting used to the course.

00:31:17.604 –> 00:31:20.244

And so if it already has the lessons laid out there with the titles,

00:31:20.364 –> 00:31:23.064

it, it all just makes a lot more sense to teach you how to use the

00:31:23.064 –> 00:31:24.594

tool, which is a big part of it too.

00:31:24.744 –> 00:31:26.064

And we'll do the same for lessons.

00:31:26.064 –> 00:31:28.134

We know the lesson title, we know the lesson objectives.

00:31:28.434 –> 00:31:30.384

We can, I'm nervous about this one.

00:31:30.384 –> 00:31:34.854

I, we're not gonna publish it if it's not good content, but like, I'm hoping

00:31:34.854 –> 00:31:41.064

we can write it in ways, like tell a story a around this topic or Yeah, like

00:31:41.064 –> 00:31:45.984

try to make it more engaging or ask discussion questions for this topic.

00:31:46.074 –> 00:31:50.124

So it's not just like regurgitating a textbook of content, right?

00:31:50.129 –> 00:31:55.014

Like it's gonna vary based on what the topic is, that it gives you some lesson

00:31:55.014 –> 00:32:00.924

output, help build some of that, um, you know, interactive elements into the lesson

00:32:00.924 –> 00:32:01.374

Joe: for you.

00:32:02.214 –> 00:32:04.644

Yeah, I really, I really like that.

00:32:04.734 –> 00:32:09.204

Um, cuz usually, you know, when I start, when I start on a course,

00:32:09.204 –> 00:32:10.764

the first thing I'll do is.

00:32:11.604 –> 00:32:13.599

Um, this is like course or book.

00:32:13.899 –> 00:32:18.669

Um, there's a like dual mind map of like everything I know about the topic.

00:32:18.669 –> 00:32:18.909

Right.

00:32:19.419 –> 00:32:24.369

Um, and so like even if I start there, right, I could still ask cha

00:32:24.669 –> 00:32:28.899

e p t or Bard, um, which by the way, I tried Bard when I first came out.

00:32:29.229 –> 00:32:30.609

Um, it's not as good, I'll be honest.

00:32:30.939 –> 00:32:31.389

Yeah.

00:32:31.389 –> 00:32:36.849

I mean, I, I I I kind of feel like Google's like scared of how good it

00:32:36.849 –> 00:32:39.879

could actually be and like they're probably throttling it a little bit.

00:32:40.299 –> 00:32:40.959

Oh, interesting.

00:32:41.019 –> 00:32:45.039

Um, just based on what I've read, pre Bard coming out.

00:32:45.729 –> 00:32:49.869

Um, but like, is that, is that rapidly, is that changing rapidly?

00:32:49.874 –> 00:32:52.749

Cuz I know like one of the things that Bard can do that chat c p t

00:32:52.754 –> 00:32:55.309

can't is like get the content of a.

00:32:56.079 –> 00:32:56.379

Right.

00:32:56.829 –> 00:32:57.879

Ronnie: Yeah, it does that.

00:32:57.909 –> 00:33:00.549

Um, and I use Bing actually a lot too.

00:33:01.329 –> 00:33:01.449

Oh, nice.

00:33:01.449 –> 00:33:04.509

Like, I'll test them all and Bing is chat g p t four, but it does

00:33:04.509 –> 00:33:07.749

the website stuff and I really like the way it cites its sources.

00:33:07.754 –> 00:33:07.879

Oh.

00:33:08.229 –> 00:33:10.059

And tells you where it pulled the information.

00:33:10.599 –> 00:33:11.279

Um, dang.

00:33:11.589 –> 00:33:11.949

That's awesome.

00:33:11.979 –> 00:33:12.039

Yeah.

00:33:12.039 –> 00:33:15.189

One thing, one thing I like about Bard is it usually gives you three

00:33:15.189 –> 00:33:17.109

versions of whatever it writes.

00:33:17.649 –> 00:33:20.619

And so you can immediately see what's different between the three versions.

00:33:20.619 –> 00:33:21.729

So that's pretty cool too.

00:33:21.949 –> 00:33:24.739

And I'm hoping we kind of build that in maybe with, it's kind of like

00:33:24.744 –> 00:33:26.089

we're doing three quiz questions.

00:33:26.089 –> 00:33:27.829

You can choose to have all three.

00:33:28.369 –> 00:33:33.829

Um, but with the outlines, we might have it do a short course outline

00:33:33.829 –> 00:33:38.299

or a more complicated course outline with like modules or something so

00:33:38.299 –> 00:33:40.009

we can show you the differences.

00:33:40.489 –> 00:33:46.399

Um, that is, is something we're, we're actively kind of looking into.

00:33:47.084 –> 00:33:51.764

Joe: Did you read Bill Gates's article about ai, like the future of AI

00:33:51.764 –> 00:33:54.194

and, and how it could help people?

00:33:55.514 –> 00:33:57.734

Ronnie: I don't think I, I mean, I know I didn't read it.

00:33:57.794 –> 00:33:59.264

I've heard bits and pieces

00:33:59.264 –> 00:34:04.304

Joe: of what I, my biggest takeaway and what I liked best from it was he

00:34:04.304 –> 00:34:05.804

basically said that my job is safe.

00:34:05.804 –> 00:34:06.014

Right?

00:34:06.014 –> 00:34:09.134

Educators, the world's always gonna need educators and the

00:34:09.134 –> 00:34:10.244

world's always gonna need nurses.

00:34:10.244 –> 00:34:12.284

So like, my job and my wife's job are safe.

00:34:13.189 –> 00:34:21.284

Um, but, uh, to that point, right, anybody at this moment can look

00:34:21.284 –> 00:34:23.024

up anything they want, right?

00:34:23.729 –> 00:34:26.729

Uh, you can find information on anything.

00:34:27.389 –> 00:34:33.239

And, um, but that doesn't mean that schools and educational

00:34:33.239 –> 00:34:34.889

institutions are eliminated, right?

00:34:34.889 –> 00:34:43.409

Because you still need someone with the experience to discern and distill

00:34:44.069 –> 00:34:46.529

and filter out the garbage, right?

00:34:46.889 –> 00:34:53.429

Um, and so I think like what we're talking about here is how chat G

00:34:53.429 –> 00:34:59.909

P T or other generative AI tools can help us make better content,

00:34:59.909 –> 00:35:01.439

give us better ideas, right?

00:35:01.569 –> 00:35:07.859

Because we as educators, we still only have like our personal lens, right?

00:35:07.859 –> 00:35:13.739

So like, I mean, I don't want to, um, disparage programmers.

00:35:13.739 –> 00:35:17.669

I am a programmer, but like I've, I've said this before, right?

00:35:17.669 –> 00:35:20.369

Where like I'll be talking to a client and they'll want to feature and I'll

00:35:20.369 –> 00:35:21.289

be like, why would you want that?

00:35:22.379 –> 00:35:22.739

Right.

00:35:22.739 –> 00:35:26.609

Like, which is just such a conceited thing to think and say.

00:35:27.179 –> 00:35:32.849

Um, but like the same could be said in, in the education setting, right?

00:35:32.849 –> 00:35:38.519

Like, I might not think of something that the, uh, the learner might need to learn.

00:35:39.029 –> 00:35:44.249

Whereas a few good prompts from chat G P T might show me like, I'm teaching WordPress

00:35:44.249 –> 00:35:48.629

and most people don't know the difference between a page and a post that comes from

00:35:48.629 –> 00:35:51.629

a real life experience where my student was like, what are you even talking about?

00:35:52.349 –> 00:35:53.159

What's the difference?

00:35:53.279 –> 00:36:01.289

Um, so things like that, if you can short circuit that, uh, incredulous

00:36:01.289 –> 00:36:07.559

look from a, an 18 year old student, uh, chay, VT could save you a lot of pain.

00:36:09.389 –> 00:36:11.789

Ronnie: Well, you know what, you made me think a little bit about.

00:36:13.029 –> 00:36:13.124

Chat.

00:36:13.124 –> 00:36:18.224

G p t is so text heavy and I know that there's some like generative like

00:36:18.224 –> 00:36:21.884

art and image tools and even videos we're getting there, but mm-hmm.

00:36:22.129 –> 00:36:25.934

We, we've kind of been on this trend away from reading a lot of text and

00:36:25.934 –> 00:36:30.044

moving into like these like TikTok like video for everything, right?

00:36:30.044 –> 00:36:35.294

Like if you can't, if you can't teach it in a, in a quick, uh, portrait mode.

00:36:35.294 –> 00:36:38.204

TikTok, I mean, forever it was like, how dare you record a video

00:36:38.204 –> 00:36:39.764

in portrait mode and now Oh, I know.

00:36:40.004 –> 00:36:48.614

Um, and so like that's a good thing that educators have to remember.

00:36:48.619 –> 00:36:51.314

Like depending on the topic, depending on the learner, you

00:36:51.314 –> 00:36:52.874

kind of set it with their needs.

00:36:52.879 –> 00:36:57.554

Like some things somebody might be able to read and understand others they

00:36:57.554 –> 00:37:01.244

might be better if they hear it or if they see it in a video or if they get

00:37:01.244 –> 00:37:03.194

to draw it themselves or whatever.

00:37:03.464 –> 00:37:05.964

So when we're building our course, we can inc.

00:37:06.764 –> 00:37:10.514

All these strategies, whenever possible, give people the choice

00:37:10.514 –> 00:37:13.304

and we don't have to funnel them through the exact same experience

00:37:13.304 –> 00:37:15.134

as everyone else taking the course.

00:37:15.224 –> 00:37:16.484

We can give them their options.

00:37:16.484 –> 00:37:21.854

And that's really what I hope this like AI will help us be able to build

00:37:21.854 –> 00:37:26.084

those sorts of like, just experiences

00:37:26.084 –> 00:37:26.594

Joe: faster.

00:37:27.554 –> 00:37:27.974

Yeah.

00:37:27.974 –> 00:37:31.034

And, and this is something I talk about with like content reuse, right?

00:37:31.094 –> 00:37:35.334

Um, you know, I've got students who are like, how am I supposed

00:37:35.334 –> 00:37:36.164

to make all this content?

00:37:36.169 –> 00:37:41.114

Like, well, you know, it's, uh, record the podcast, use generative AI to get

00:37:41.114 –> 00:37:44.594

a transcript, have chat, e b t, clean up that transcript and make it readable

00:37:45.404 –> 00:37:47.204

and then have it summarize, right?

00:37:47.264 –> 00:37:48.734

Oh, now you have LinkedIn post, right?

00:37:49.214 –> 00:37:52.634

Uh, there is, if you are creating text based courses, like maybe you're not

00:37:52.814 –> 00:37:57.464

good on like, maybe, you know, I mean, Thomas Jefferson famously delivered

00:37:57.464 –> 00:38:04.044

his state, state of the Union, states of the State of the Union addresses.

00:38:04.214 –> 00:38:04.694

There we go.

00:38:05.204 –> 00:38:08.789

Um, Via, via written word, right?

00:38:08.789 –> 00:38:10.319

Because he hated speaking.

00:38:11.099 –> 00:38:16.919

Um, but I was just looking at this tool by, uh, 11 Labs.

00:38:17.729 –> 00:38:18.989

I don't know if you've seen this one.

00:38:18.989 –> 00:38:23.489

You give it, you feed it a sample of your voice, and then it will, you

00:38:23.494 –> 00:38:29.909

know, generate, uh, text to speech with your own voice, um, does a pretty

00:38:29.909 –> 00:38:37.409

good job if you have like that North American kind of accent and dialect.

00:38:38.039 –> 00:38:43.529

Um, you know, I think, uh, I was listening to a podcast with, uh, John Voorhis,

00:38:43.679 –> 00:38:49.019

who's from like Chicago and Federico Vici, who's from Rome, Italy, and, um,

00:38:49.649 –> 00:38:52.619

definitely worked a little bit better for John than it did for Federico.

00:38:52.619 –> 00:38:55.649

So probably a very US-centric tool right now.

00:38:55.654 –> 00:38:58.709

But, um, you know, if you're in a position where you can.

00:38:59.924 –> 00:39:02.684

Audio content, you're not comfortable in front of the mic.

00:39:02.774 –> 00:39:02.954

Yeah.

00:39:03.314 –> 00:39:05.054

That could be an opportunity.

00:39:05.114 –> 00:39:05.474

Right?

00:39:05.534 –> 00:39:06.494

Or vice versa.

00:39:07.394 –> 00:39:11.654

AI tools are giving us the ability to meet the learners where they want

00:39:11.659 –> 00:39:13.214

to be, which I think is super great.

00:39:15.404 –> 00:39:16.244

Ronnie: Yeah, absolutely.

00:39:16.544 –> 00:39:22.634

And like I can write a blog post or an email like in no time.

00:39:22.664 –> 00:39:25.934

That's just a skill that I've developed, but when it comes to trying

00:39:25.934 –> 00:39:29.774

to record a video, like it could take me all day to record a minute

00:39:29.774 –> 00:39:34.724

because I just like, just get stressed out about it and wanna rerecord a

00:39:34.724 –> 00:39:36.074

million times and all that stuff.

00:39:36.074 –> 00:39:36.164

Mm-hmm.

00:39:37.304 –> 00:39:39.824

Maybe there's tools that are available that are gonna help me.

00:39:39.824 –> 00:39:40.124

Right.

00:39:40.124 –> 00:39:43.034

Like I can write it out and like get it out quickly.

00:39:43.564 –> 00:39:46.324

Joe: I think it's really interesting when you think about those things, right?

00:39:46.534 –> 00:39:50.854

Turning on a video and, and talking is energy.

00:39:50.974 –> 00:39:54.874

Like it takes a lot of energy, the camera steals energy from you.

00:39:54.874 –> 00:39:56.974

So, um, yeah.

00:39:56.974 –> 00:39:57.754

But these tools can be

00:39:57.754 –> 00:39:58.834

Ronnie: a great equalizer.

00:39:58.834 –> 00:39:58.924

Yes.

00:39:58.984 –> 00:40:01.684

I mean, I think about, uh, you know, people with.

00:40:02.794 –> 00:40:07.474

Dyslexia or dysgraphia like or anything really.

00:40:07.474 –> 00:40:09.574

Like we can What's dysgraphia again?

00:40:09.754 –> 00:40:13.414

It's writing issues like especially handwritten.

00:40:13.414 –> 00:40:13.444

Okay.

00:40:13.449 –> 00:40:16.054

Like handwriting and getting their words onto paper.

00:40:16.114 –> 00:40:16.384

Gotcha.

00:40:16.744 –> 00:40:21.904

Um, like, you know, we have such good tools with text

00:40:21.904 –> 00:40:23.734

to speech that really helps.

00:40:23.944 –> 00:40:24.064

Mm-hmm.

00:40:24.429 –> 00:40:29.764

Um, I've even seen people use like paste, copy paste and a whole bunch of text

00:40:29.764 –> 00:40:34.294

and say like, rewrite this in a more friendly format for someone with dyslexia.

00:40:34.294 –> 00:40:37.264

And it takes out some of like, it, there's some tools that people are

00:40:37.264 –> 00:40:42.664

working on just for that, but like, it's just these tools will hopefully be une

00:40:42.664 –> 00:40:46.774

equalizer for those, those of us both wanting to create content and consume.

00:40:46.779 –> 00:40:47.104

Right.

00:40:47.104 –> 00:40:49.594

We will all be a little bit more on an even playing field.

00:40:50.304 –> 00:40:51.034

Joe: Yeah, absolutely.

00:40:51.034 –> 00:40:51.554

To be pretty cool.

00:40:51.554 –> 00:40:51.954

Absolutely.

00:40:52.114 –> 00:40:52.744

That's awesome.

00:40:53.104 –> 00:40:55.174

That's like one of the things everyone's like, why do I, why

00:40:55.174 –> 00:40:56.674

does my podcast need a transcript?

00:40:56.764 –> 00:40:57.034

Right.

00:40:57.094 –> 00:41:01.234

I'm like, well, there's like a lot of reasons, but some people prefer to read.

00:41:02.244 –> 00:41:05.254

And like the argument will be like, well, our podcast is so

00:41:05.254 –> 00:41:09.574

conversational that like just the transcript will be terrible to read.

00:41:09.574 –> 00:41:12.244

And I'm like, all right, well let the reader make that judgment.

00:41:12.364 –> 00:41:12.664

Right?

00:41:12.669 –> 00:41:15.214

Like, don't be like, you won't like this anyway.

00:41:16.564 –> 00:41:17.074

Um,

00:41:17.764 –> 00:41:17.974

Ronnie: yeah.

00:41:17.974 –> 00:41:21.604

Well, similarly, if you have a video based course, of course it's heavy with videos.

00:41:21.604 –> 00:41:25.534

Like not just having the caption option, but like you can use an

00:41:25.534 –> 00:41:28.234

accordion to hide it, but put the whole transcript in there, right?

00:41:28.264 –> 00:41:28.534

Yeah.

00:41:28.654 –> 00:41:33.214

So someone can expand, but you're also gonna like benefit search if

00:41:33.214 –> 00:41:34.384

someone's searching through your course.

00:41:34.414 –> 00:41:37.174

One of the things that, I don't know how long this will take or how useful

00:41:37.179 –> 00:41:40.534

this will be, but I feel like we're gonna have these chat bots that follow

00:41:40.534 –> 00:41:41.884

us on every website we visit now.

00:41:42.544 –> 00:41:43.154

Mm-hmm.

00:41:43.234 –> 00:41:48.304

So the idea is like, and we're kind of looking into this like an AI tool

00:41:48.304 –> 00:41:49.864

where you could chat with the course.

00:41:50.404 –> 00:41:50.684

Yeah.

00:41:51.364 –> 00:41:55.234

And you know, so having that transcript in there is gonna make, building these

00:41:55.234 –> 00:41:57.394

tools and add-ons later so much better.

00:41:57.394 –> 00:41:58.684

So I would definitely,

00:41:58.744 –> 00:42:00.964

Joe: someone told me.

00:42:01.999 –> 00:42:03.724

About a tool like this.

00:42:04.144 –> 00:42:06.514

It's not on this piece of paper, I thought it was.

00:42:06.964 –> 00:42:10.384

Um, but it's like you feed it a bunch of your content, video content,

00:42:10.384 –> 00:42:14.434

audio content, and it transcribes it, transcribes it, and then you basically

00:42:14.434 –> 00:42:19.864

say like, um, where do I talk about, uh, this was a real estate example, right?

00:42:19.864 –> 00:42:22.714

So like, where do I talk about, um, HOAs?

00:42:23.584 –> 00:42:27.274

And this chat box comes back and it's like, in this video at minute

00:42:27.484 –> 00:42:30.094

nine you talk about HOAs, right?

00:42:30.094 –> 00:42:33.334

Like, so these tools are already being developed and that is

00:42:34.114 –> 00:42:36.034

absolutely bananas to me.

00:42:36.064 –> 00:42:38.434

Ronnie: And even more than like search results like that, it'll

00:42:38.439 –> 00:42:41.554

like synthesize like, what did we talk about with HOAs in there?

00:42:41.554 –> 00:42:41.644

Right?

00:42:41.784 –> 00:42:44.584

And it'll like summarize instead of you having to read the transcript.

00:42:44.584 –> 00:42:47.374

And, and so I feel like that's coming.

00:42:47.379 –> 00:42:51.064

I don't know how far in the future, but your course will have

00:42:51.184 –> 00:42:53.734

a chatbot that someone can like.

00:42:54.579 –> 00:42:57.019

You know, ask questions of the course.

00:42:57.439 –> 00:42:57.709

Right?

00:42:57.709 –> 00:43:01.429

Um, every website has it with documentation and all that sort of stuff,

00:43:01.429 –> 00:43:02.719

Joe: so Yeah.

00:43:02.749 –> 00:43:04.399

Completely indexed, right?

00:43:04.399 –> 00:43:08.329

And then this is, yeah, I mean, cuz this follows the trend and I'm

00:43:08.334 –> 00:43:09.649

aware we're coming up on time here.

00:43:09.709 –> 00:43:14.209

Um, so if anybody has any, any questions, uh, for me, or more importantly,

00:43:14.209 –> 00:43:16.669

Ronnie, um, leave them in the chat.

00:43:16.669 –> 00:43:17.839

I'll make sure we get to them.

00:43:18.229 –> 00:43:25.399

Um, but you know, the trend for the last few years has been, um, I first heard,

00:43:25.399 –> 00:43:32.059

uh, uh, Chris Badgett from Lifter, uh, use this term, um, like just in time learning.

00:43:32.059 –> 00:43:32.149

Mm-hmm.

00:43:32.929 –> 00:43:33.199

Right?

00:43:33.199 –> 00:43:37.219

Where people have a problem they wanna solve and they want to find course

00:43:37.219 –> 00:43:40.579

material in that moment, uh, to help them.

00:43:40.579 –> 00:43:42.829

And so this tool, the tool is called Searchy.

00:43:43.339 –> 00:43:44.719

I'll put it in the chat here.

00:43:45.319 –> 00:43:46.579

Um, oh, nice.

00:43:46.699 –> 00:43:50.299

But this is like, this is the, the tool I was talking about, that like

00:43:50.299 –> 00:43:52.279

index is your own content for you.

00:43:52.279 –> 00:43:55.294

This is like, Definitely something I'm gonna be playing with

00:43:55.714 –> 00:43:56.734

probably on the next live stream.

00:43:57.364 –> 00:44:00.664

Uh, either that or like generating an outline for my next book idea.

00:44:00.844 –> 00:44:08.614

Um, but uh, having a tool like this means that you can have, uh, over

00:44:08.614 –> 00:44:11.014

six or 14 hours of course content.

00:44:11.044 –> 00:44:14.644

And like, that doesn't feel daunting to the, the learner anymore.

00:44:14.644 –> 00:44:14.854

Right.

00:44:14.854 –> 00:44:18.334

Because I think this was like another thing that like course creators felt like

00:44:18.334 –> 00:44:24.454

they had to do was just like, put as much content as possible because content equals

00:44:24.454 –> 00:44:27.394

value, but like outcomes, equal value.

00:44:28.114 –> 00:44:29.584

Um, yeah.

00:44:29.584 –> 00:44:29.674

And

00:44:29.674 –> 00:44:33.914

Ronnie: these micro courses are like a big thing and a good, I mean, you

00:44:33.914 –> 00:44:35.554

can learn so much in 15 minutes.

00:44:35.664 –> 00:44:36.154

Yeah.

00:44:36.154 –> 00:44:37.194

And like absolutely.

00:44:37.614 –> 00:44:41.014

You know, and you could, you could sell that easily.

00:44:41.824 –> 00:44:42.094

Right.

00:44:42.099 –> 00:44:44.914

Um, you know, and, and get good value

00:44:44.914 –> 00:44:45.304

Joe: out of it.

00:44:45.424 –> 00:44:46.504

So yeah.

00:44:46.504 –> 00:44:50.674

That's like a tactical error I made recently where, um, I've got

00:44:50.674 –> 00:44:54.184

over a hundred videos, probably like 125 videos on podcasting.

00:44:54.994 –> 00:44:57.844

And, um, they were all in kind of self-paced courses.

00:44:57.844 –> 00:45:01.624

They were mostly in one big self-paced course, and I just kind of turned

00:45:01.624 –> 00:45:06.004

it into a membership where you could search for videos and, uh, I thought

00:45:06.004 –> 00:45:09.364

this was really the way to go, like Netflix style search for your topic.

00:45:09.714 –> 00:45:14.014

Um, when I didn't anticipate was for like, I kind of priced myself

00:45:14.014 –> 00:45:21.154

out of the market, um, for my target audience, but also, like, sometimes

00:45:21.159 –> 00:45:22.804

people don't know what they don't know.

00:45:23.674 –> 00:45:28.204

And so if I give them a, um, micro course or a mini course where it's like, how

00:45:28.204 –> 00:45:31.744

to start a podcast for less than 400 bucks, oh, well that's the thing that

00:45:31.744 –> 00:45:35.944

they know they, they need or how to get your first podcast sponsor right now.

00:45:35.949 –> 00:45:38.794

Let's not think long term about generating hundreds of thousands

00:45:38.794 –> 00:45:40.114

of dollars off of sponsorships.

00:45:40.114 –> 00:45:41.974

Let's just talk about getting your first sponsorship.

00:45:41.974 –> 00:45:43.264

Is that worth 50 bucks to you?

00:45:44.049 –> 00:45:44.749

Well, yeah, totally.

00:45:45.499 –> 00:45:48.499

Ronnie: And then you can cross sell, upsell, right, exactly.

00:45:48.499 –> 00:45:50.209

Link all that sort of good stuff.

00:45:50.269 –> 00:45:50.569

Yeah.

00:45:50.569 –> 00:45:53.299

Especially into like a one-on-one coaching thing or whatever

00:45:53.299 –> 00:45:53.779

Joe: it may be.

00:45:54.499 –> 00:45:55.639

So Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:45:55.639 –> 00:45:59.869

And the mistake I made learn from this mistake friends, um, I tried to bundle

00:45:59.869 –> 00:46:05.089

it all together, like you get all hundred 20 videos and live cohorts with me and a

00:46:05.089 –> 00:46:09.799

one-on-one session with me, and I thought I was throwing in a lot of value, but

00:46:09.829 –> 00:46:11.389

it kind of sounds overwhelming, right?

00:46:11.389 –> 00:46:13.849

And so, like people who bought, and now we're six months in, they, and

00:46:13.849 –> 00:46:16.429

they're like, do I still have that one-on-one coaching session with you?

00:46:16.489 –> 00:46:21.499

Like, and maybe if I let more people buy it when they're ready, right?

00:46:21.499 –> 00:46:25.249

If I get them in and they, I solve their immediate problem, then the

00:46:25.249 –> 00:46:27.349

upsell the cross-sell is, is better.

00:46:27.409 –> 00:46:33.829

And so, um, not really generative ai, but just like kind of the theory of, I, I

00:46:33.834 –> 00:46:36.469

think we're moving towards, uh, away from.

00:46:37.084 –> 00:46:38.734

By the college degree.

00:46:38.854 –> 00:46:39.184

Right?

00:46:39.814 –> 00:46:40.054

Yeah.

00:46:40.194 –> 00:46:40.554

Yeah.

00:46:40.554 –> 00:46:43.714

And, and, and we're moving more towards like buy the skill, right?

00:46:43.714 –> 00:46:47.794

We're moving from like the big, like four, six year universities

00:46:47.794 –> 00:46:48.994

to the trade school again.

00:46:51.874 –> 00:46:52.114

Yeah.

00:46:52.714 –> 00:46:53.164

Awesome.

00:46:53.164 –> 00:46:59.014

Well, I wanna wrap up here with, um, uh, we touched on the

00:46:59.014 –> 00:47:00.364

stuff that, that you are doing.

00:47:00.394 –> 00:47:04.714

Uh, obviously you work for Automatic, automatic has a lot of different tools.

00:47:04.714 –> 00:47:05.344

Automatic.

00:47:05.344 –> 00:47:11.464

For those who don't know, uh, they run wordpress.com, own WOR WooCommerce, uh,

00:47:11.464 –> 00:47:14.704

and therefore Sensei Mail Poet, Jetpack.

00:47:15.994 –> 00:47:17.944

A lot of other things that I'm probably forgetting.

00:47:18.514 –> 00:47:20.704

Um, did I miss anything major there?

00:47:20.764 –> 00:47:22.234

Did I name all the major properties,

00:47:22.414 –> 00:47:25.024

Ronnie: but for anyone listening, pocket cast, it's my favorite

00:47:25.024 –> 00:47:27.334

Joe: pocket cast, of course.

00:47:27.634 –> 00:47:30.964

Um, God and Pocket cast is amazing.

00:47:31.024 –> 00:47:38.299

Uh, Hashtag not a sponsor, but like really, um, the web interface

00:47:38.299 –> 00:47:41.389

is still like the best of any podcast app I've ever used.

00:47:42.139 –> 00:47:44.179

Um, yeah, so Great point.

00:47:44.299 –> 00:47:47.359

Podcasts, uh, lots of other great stuff.

00:47:47.359 –> 00:47:52.639

So, um, is there like an overarching philosophy inside of Automatic?

00:47:53.119 –> 00:47:56.359

I know Automatic has for a long time been very like, let the

00:47:56.359 –> 00:47:58.069

teams do their things ship.

00:47:58.639 –> 00:48:02.089

Um, but as you've grown, maybe you've, you've gotten a more

00:48:02.089 –> 00:48:03.649

like com company wide philosophy.

00:48:03.654 –> 00:48:04.789

Does that question make sense?

00:48:05.254 –> 00:48:05.854

Ronnie: Yeah, it makes sense.

00:48:05.854 –> 00:48:06.934

And it's a little bit of both.

00:48:07.024 –> 00:48:13.834

I mean, I think, uh, Matt Mullenweg, our founder CEO o like posted in a publicly

00:48:13.834 –> 00:48:18.004

in a post status channel recently, like, you know, he thinks everyone across

00:48:18.004 –> 00:48:21.664

the entire WordPress ecosystem needs to learn AI deeply and experiment.

00:48:21.664 –> 00:48:24.424

And it's like, I think like everyone, it's taken over.

00:48:25.684 –> 00:48:30.214

Um, like it's something every team is talking about and is thinking about how

00:48:30.214 –> 00:48:34.714

to incorporate in their own way and that the teams have the autonomy and, you

00:48:34.714 –> 00:48:36.334

know, to figure out what works best.

00:48:36.574 –> 00:48:40.954

Everything from like, tools that we're using internally, like I now have a

00:48:40.954 –> 00:48:46.924

chatbot to ask like how, you know, like sense senses, subscriber numbers

00:48:46.924 –> 00:48:48.544

or changing over time or whatever.

00:48:48.544 –> 00:48:52.624

Instead of looking for a graph all the way up to like getting it into the hands of

00:48:52.684 –> 00:48:54.784

users, creating content in different ways.

00:48:55.504 –> 00:48:59.464

Also a big focus around, uh, we have so much content.

00:48:59.884 –> 00:49:06.694

Uh, forums and from courses and from blog posts, you know, about how to use

00:49:06.754 –> 00:49:10.774

WordPress, wordpress.com and all these sorts of things that like, you know,

00:49:10.774 –> 00:49:15.094

how can we use AI to, to help synthesize all that and, and get the user what they

00:49:15.094 –> 00:49:18.314

want to know from, from a support aspect.

00:49:18.694 –> 00:49:23.824

So it, it really runs the picture there, but it is like every team for themselves,

00:49:23.824 –> 00:49:31.654

we are working on like some centralized like, um, a p i tools that we can all use

00:49:31.654 –> 00:49:36.934

as, so that, that like some of the dirty behind the scenes under the hood work

00:49:36.934 –> 00:49:40.654

can be taken care of for us so we can just build faster, which is pretty cool.

00:49:41.494 –> 00:49:41.884

Joe: Nice.

00:49:41.884 –> 00:49:42.574

That's amazing.

00:49:42.634 –> 00:49:45.304

Um, we'll have to get into this at a later date, right?

00:49:45.304 –> 00:49:48.334

But like, customer service is probably a really good place

00:49:48.339 –> 00:49:49.804

where AI could be helpful, right?

00:49:49.884 –> 00:49:53.074

And yeah, this is like the first quote unquote chatbots.

00:49:53.079 –> 00:49:55.444

I feel like chatbot has a totally different meaning now

00:49:55.924 –> 00:49:57.244

than even like two years ago.

00:49:58.024 –> 00:50:01.444

But like, you would see that in, in the chat bots that, you know, you

00:50:01.444 –> 00:50:03.754

have little bubble on the site and it's like, Hey, how can I help you?

00:50:03.754 –> 00:50:06.574

Like the support chat.

00:50:06.844 –> 00:50:11.464

And it's like, oh, well, oh, it looks like you said the word migrate here.

00:50:11.464 –> 00:50:13.774

Like, have you looked at these FAQ articles and

00:50:14.434 –> 00:50:15.004

Ronnie: it was rarely

00:50:15.009 –> 00:50:15.514

Joe: what you needed.

00:50:15.519 –> 00:50:15.814

Right?

00:50:15.814 –> 00:50:16.954

It was rarely what you needed.

00:50:16.954 –> 00:50:17.044

Right.

00:50:17.334 –> 00:50:18.574

But like now Right.

00:50:18.574 –> 00:50:21.874

It feels like it'll be less rare.

00:50:22.804 –> 00:50:23.434

And also

00:50:23.434 –> 00:50:28.384

Ronnie: like the folks, you know, handling, uh, which their job is unreal.

00:50:28.384 –> 00:50:32.674

And I could never do like handling multiple live chats and tickets.

00:50:32.674 –> 00:50:32.764

I know.

00:50:32.769 –> 00:50:34.324

And like helping people all day long.

00:50:34.414 –> 00:50:38.524

Like they're the heroes, but they also have access to this data and

00:50:38.524 –> 00:50:40.054

it's like a lot to keep up with.

00:50:40.294 –> 00:50:40.684

Mm.

00:50:41.254 –> 00:50:47.944

Two, um, to help them like search and, and find the right way to say it that worked

00:50:47.944 –> 00:50:49.384

for someone in the past or something.

00:50:49.384 –> 00:50:49.684

Right.

00:50:49.744 –> 00:50:50.104

And

00:50:50.104 –> 00:50:50.314

Joe: yeah.

00:50:50.319 –> 00:50:51.034

That's pretty cool.

00:50:51.514 –> 00:50:52.114

Absolutely.

00:50:52.114 –> 00:50:57.784

I'm, I'm gonna, um, end with a, a question that I, I'm curious about, uh, cuz I know

00:50:57.784 –> 00:51:02.254

for a while every new hire at Automatic had to work support for two weeks.

00:51:02.254 –> 00:51:03.034

Did you have to do that?

00:51:03.424 –> 00:51:04.204

Ronnie: I did, yeah.

00:51:04.204 –> 00:51:07.564

And I had to do Woo support and I had never really used Woo.

00:51:07.834 –> 00:51:08.134

Oh wow.

00:51:08.134 –> 00:51:11.164

And so it was quite eye-opening and I'm, I'm due for

00:51:11.254 –> 00:51:12.604

Joe: getting back in there for a week.

00:51:12.904 –> 00:51:13.234

Nice.

00:51:13.234 –> 00:51:13.414

Yeah.

00:51:13.419 –> 00:51:16.564

Is that something that you can just like optionally do at any time or, uh, it's

00:51:16.569 –> 00:51:17.194

Ronnie: once a year.

00:51:17.224 –> 00:51:18.844

Everyone needs to do it, do a week.

00:51:18.849 –> 00:51:19.024

Oh,

00:51:19.444 –> 00:51:20.044

Joe: that's amazing.

00:51:20.104 –> 00:51:20.584

That's great.

00:51:20.614 –> 00:51:20.674

Yeah.

00:51:20.674 –> 00:51:22.684

That's, it's such a good, such a good thing.

00:51:22.684 –> 00:51:22.924

Right.

00:51:22.924 –> 00:51:28.354

I, um, just migrated to Transistor FM for my podcast host and, uh, the

00:51:28.354 –> 00:51:32.404

guy helping me support was also like the co-founder, uh, Justin Jackson.

00:51:32.404 –> 00:51:37.654

And I just thought that was like, Such a great thing, like, oh well, like,

00:51:37.864 –> 00:51:40.684

because you know, some people are like, I'm the ceo, and like, they're

00:51:40.684 –> 00:51:42.034

too good for like, the grunt work.

00:51:42.034 –> 00:51:44.824

But like, he's like, yeah, let me help you with that really

00:51:44.829 –> 00:51:45.094

Ronnie: quick.

00:51:45.364 –> 00:51:47.614

Just really, no, absolutely everyone in the company.

00:51:47.614 –> 00:51:51.574

I mean from like the accountants and the lawyers to the developers Wow.

00:51:51.579 –> 00:51:52.054

To everyone.

00:51:52.204 –> 00:51:53.374

So it's pretty

00:51:53.374 –> 00:51:53.704

Joe: cool.

00:51:53.974 –> 00:51:54.604

Yeah, I know.

00:51:54.604 –> 00:51:58.834

I've seen screenshots of like Matt jumping in too few times in time, which is cool.

00:51:58.834 –> 00:51:59.704

Yep, yep.

00:51:59.734 –> 00:52:00.814

Um, that's amazing.

00:52:00.814 –> 00:52:04.024

And then the last thing I'll just mention here is, uh, of the automatic

00:52:04.024 –> 00:52:07.294

products that I think are worth mentioning that I forgot to mention.

00:52:07.954 –> 00:52:09.064

Uh, we already mentioned Tumblr.

00:52:09.544 –> 00:52:13.324

Uh, day one, the journal app, which is super cool.

00:52:13.414 –> 00:52:17.854

Um, nice to be like, uh, I feel like Automatic is a good steward of that app.

00:52:18.484 –> 00:52:22.324

Uh, and simple note, which again, I feel automatic has

00:52:22.324 –> 00:52:23.794

been a good steward of that app.

00:52:23.794 –> 00:52:28.804

So, uh, looking for notes, especially for Android, I feel like, well, I mean,

00:52:29.644 –> 00:52:31.264

when I was on Android it was lacking.

00:52:31.434 –> 00:52:31.924

Yeah.

00:52:31.924 –> 00:52:34.309

Uh, Simple in a long time.

00:52:34.309 –> 00:52:35.389

Best joint based.

00:52:35.419 –> 00:52:36.469

Yeah, it's been a long time though.

00:52:36.769 –> 00:52:37.039

Yeah.

00:52:37.969 –> 00:52:43.069

Ronnie: So, oh, I mean, we've all in on open source and making the web better and

00:52:43.069 –> 00:52:45.109

not just through WordPress, which is yeah.

00:52:45.199 –> 00:52:45.799

Joe: Is pretty cool.

00:52:46.519 –> 00:52:47.029

Awesome.

00:52:47.089 –> 00:52:48.409

Well, Ronnie, this has been great.

00:52:48.409 –> 00:52:50.779

Thanks so much for joining us here on the livestream today.

00:52:51.019 –> 00:52:56.349

Thanks to, uh, EDMA and Wanda and all the lurkers, uh, who were watching

00:52:56.354 –> 00:53:00.169

or who will be listening to this later, uh, if people wanna learn more

00:53:00.169 –> 00:53:01.879

about you, where can they find you?

00:53:02.899 –> 00:53:06.709

Ronnie: I wrote a post on using Conmigo, which Khan Academy's

00:53:06.709 –> 00:53:08.839

ai on my blog@ronniebird.com.

00:53:08.899 –> 00:53:15.619

But you can also check us out on sensei lms.com, uh, for all the

00:53:15.619 –> 00:53:16.399

good stuff we're doing there.

00:53:17.479 –> 00:53:17.989

Joe: Nice.

00:53:17.989 –> 00:53:23.119

And, uh, yeah, I will make sure to have again, links in the description for

00:53:23.119 –> 00:53:25.639

both this video and the podcast episode.

00:53:25.644 –> 00:53:29.029

But, um, This episode has been presented by Sensei.

00:53:29.029 –> 00:53:34.099

So, uh, if you go to How I Built It slash sensei, you'll get a little, a

00:53:34.099 –> 00:53:39.229

little coupon code if you want to check out Sensei for your own online courses.

00:53:39.289 –> 00:53:43.579

Uh, I'm gonna find this blog post as we speak, um, and link

00:53:43.584 –> 00:53:45.109

that in the show notes as well.

00:53:45.109 –> 00:53:46.519

So, uh, oh, great.

00:53:46.519 –> 00:53:47.029

I found it.

00:53:47.059 –> 00:53:47.869

Oh, very timely.

00:53:47.869 –> 00:53:51.109

Thank you Ronnie, um, accounting Cafe.

00:53:51.109 –> 00:53:52.399

Thanks so much for being here.

00:53:52.399 –> 00:53:53.299

I appreciate you.

00:53:53.329 –> 00:53:54.169

Uh, really interesting.

00:53:54.169 –> 00:53:55.189

Thank you, Ronnie.

00:53:55.189 –> 00:53:56.929

Thanks so much for spending some extra time with us today.

00:53:57.059 –> 00:53:57.419

Yeah, it's fun.

00:53:57.419 –> 00:53:57.819

I appreciate it.

00:53:57.819 –> 00:53:58.179

A lot of fun.

00:53:58.399 –> 00:53:58.879

All right.

00:53:58.909 –> 00:53:59.119

Yep.

00:53:59.179 –> 00:54:02.119

Thank you to everybody watching slash listening.

00:54:02.539 –> 00:54:06.349

Uh, and until next time, get out there and build something.